Einherjaraspekt - Combat Stats

[DeadlyPencil]

it doesn't really matter what the normal is. but having a slider cause 3x the exp gain is stupid.

[burgingham]

Death should be a penalty in a rogue-like confirguration, not a boon or bonus. Otherwise there is no discouragement or fear of death.

It still is a pretty severe penalty. Especially for mid level players. IMO ancestor system needs to get more uses, not less. The time you invest atm is just too much to loose everything and gain nothing.

Last world I thought of Einherjer as pretty OP myself, this world for some odd reason it doesn't really have a great impact anymore. Can't quite put my finger on it, but probably has to do with groups being worth more than OP individuals now.

Oh and just for everybodies information, you don't get 25% to 75% back. It is in fact far less than that. Dying full change probably robs you of 90% of your invested LP.

[niltrias]

I'd like to see a slightly less crazy amount of bonus/penalty from the change slider...like, for example, a range of 33% - 200%. With a bonus of 360%, it just makes no sense not to play at full change unless you are about to suicide.

[Neptjunoue]

It still is a pretty severe penalty. Especially for mid level players. IMO ancestor system needs to get more uses, not less. The time you invest atm is just too much to loose everything and gain nothing.

Last world I thought of Einherjer as pretty OP myself, this world for some odd reason it doesn't really have a great impact anymore. Can't quite put my finger on it, but probably has to do with groups being worth more than OP individuals now.

Oh and just for everybodies information, you don't get 25% to 75% back. It is in fact far less than that. Dying full change probably robs you of 90% of your invested LP.

Sorry if I was misunderstood. I wanted a penalty for death, not a "too painful to continue scenaro" so the Einherjar is a way to help you get back on your feet. If it was to be nerfed, then a lower cost would be justified and due to the combat stat scaling with the square root function, the nerf wouldn't be as bad and it may be used more often due to the lower cost.

Also, did we ever thought of changing the retension of skill based on LP cost rather than their numeric skill value?

[spectacle]

Perhaps the bonus should be softcapped by your best ancestor's stats?

That way the einherjar bonus will be added in full until your combat stats reach that level, after that you'll only get 1 extra point fir every 2 your ancestors have.

[DatOneGuy]

It still is a pretty severe penalty. Especially for mid level players. IMO ancestor system needs to get more uses, not less. The time you invest atm is just too much to loose everything and gain nothing.

Last world I thought of Einherjer as pretty OP myself, this world for some odd reason it doesn't really have a great impact anymore. Can't quite put my finger on it, but probably has to do with groups being worth more than OP individuals now.

Oh and just for everybodies information, you don't get 25% to 75% back. It is in fact far less than that. Dying full change probably robs you of 90% of your invested LP.

Sorry if I was misunderstood. I wanted a penalty for death, not a "too painful to continue scenaro" so the Einherjar is a way to help you get back on your feet. If it was to be nerfed, then a lower cost would be justified and due to the combat stat scaling with the square root function, the nerf wouldn't be as bad and it may be used more often due to the lower cost.

Also, did we ever thought of changing the retension of skill based on LP cost rather than their numeric skill value?

Considering it's 'combat' there's no 'help you get back on your feet', you either use him to go out guns blazing cause you need to help and your city is in danger or you hang off fighting for a while, that's pretty much it.

I could see if it was farming, yeah now THAT Would make sense to get you back on your feet fast, in fact it's one of those things I was hoping for, calling to 'match' your ancestor's farming for let's say 8 hours, that'd be nice if you just sacrificed him for the seed prayer (abusing? Maybe I guess..), but also if you died at full change (UGGGH!!!).

I never understood why it was for combat characters and not farming things like this. ;P

[Potjeh]

Let's do some math, shall we?

LP cost to raise skill to level X is X^2/2 (*100, but we can ignore that for simpler math).
Losing top 25% of it is X^2/2 - (.75X)^2/2 = X^2(1- .5625)/2 = .4375X^2/2
Divide loss by total LP, and you can see that in reality it costs 43.75% of your current experience invested in skill points to die at full trad.

Now, Let's say you regrind back to your old level and invoke einher.
The skill level you will get is (2x)^2/2 = 4X^2/2
Divide that by total base LP, and you see that the gain from einher is 400% LP.

So, suiciding and then einhering pays off nearly tenfold for first ancestor (can't be arsed to do the math for more), so it's not a matter of whether you should do it, but when (I could probably calculate optimum spacing of deaths if I didn't fail calculus). If you don't do it you're a silly LARPer like myself. So yeah, I honestly don't understand how anyone can think it's not overpowered. Especially since this planned death can be used to wreck havoc with no real cost to yourself (rangers would basically do you a favour by killing you).

[DatOneGuy]

When you do it however you are assuming that you are at a suitable level to do it, if you do it at 500, get back to 500 and now have 1.5k+ (thanes), that's cool and all, but 3 months later when the 'norm' is 1k, you're a loser if you don't have Numen ALL THE TIME.

[Potjeh]

Actually, you gain more later on. If you die at X than grind up 2X, you gain 3X skill with einher.
(3X)^2 - (2X)^2 = X^2(9 - 4) = 5X^2
Now divide that by the original .4375X^2, and you get 11.428-fold repayment for your investment.