Why a Map Without Boundries is a Boring One

[kobnach]

The Determined (and unemployed) Thief
There does not seem to be anything stopping a thief, or a high level character for that matter, walking far, far out into ungenerated areas, perhaps even 10+ hours of constant walking in one specific direction, and setting up a hearth.

*Theft Scents will decay before players can actually walk to thief's location.
*Thief can join a village closer to society and port back and forth at will.
*If tracking is fixed, it will be nigh impossible to get an accurate fix if their stealth is reasonably high.

I agree with this, but perhaps the answer is not to fix tracking - as it will no longer be broken on an infinite map.

*If settlements are hours away from each other, no one will be willing to make the effort to travel to trade.
*Crowding and limited resources lead to conflict. Conflict is good.

If there is no end to the map, there is no end to resources. It does not matter if gold is 'rare', that just means you have to walk further to spawn a new supergrid, which will hopefully have gold on. If every town is self-sufficient for all resources there is no reason for interaction nor for conflict. This will lead to massive stagnation.

This will lead to the possibility of actually playing with the new toys, developing high quality items, etc., without having to constantly spend one's playing time on defense and/or recovery from when those defences fail - without having to live in a huge overcrowded settlement where one can't play with the new toys effectively because one's friends constantly move and/or use up resources.

Also, towns can't be self sufficient because the resources are apparently going to be widely separated. The best one can do is to perhaps have a collection of affiliated settlements, all in the same supergrid, which trust each other enough to specialize and trade. This will be greatly facilitated by the expanding map - unwanted predators, freebooters etc. will probably settle the same supergrid, but at least such a group will have a decent chance at claiming and protecting all the needed resources before spoilers arrive. (Of course travel even between those settlements will be a bitch ;-()

Without this, what happens at the map reset is that people go out and find the (few) mines, and try desperately to get them developed and working well enough to build palisades before opposition arrives. Those who succeed immediately begin making steel, to upgrade to brick walls - mines are scarce, and those who didn't get mines will be trying to take over the existing ones. We then fight over mines for a few RL weeks, while those who can spare the energy - and the steel - prospect for and grab all the other scarce resources. This creates a have-have-not situation, with those on the outside unable to get the materials to protect what resources they can find. Some trading may happen - but it's easier for the mine-holders to steal from the outsiders rather than trading with them - and keeping outsiders unable to get pickaxes, armor better than leather and weapons better than stone axes is a major win for the mine-holders.

A few outsiders, such as the OP, can break into a mine settlement without metal of their own, but that just changes _who_ is on top. Most will have a major disadvantage in LP gain due to the tools situation, and quit.

Sounds like massive amounts of fun to me ;-(

[Xarx]

This will lead to the possibility of actually playing with the new toys, developing high quality items, etc., without having to constantly spend one's playing time on defense and/or recovery from when those defences fail - without having to live in a huge overcrowded settlement where one can't play with the new toys effectively because one's friends constantly move and/or use up resources.

Where the hell are you living where you have to constantly be on defence? Why don't you move?

I've been living by myself since I started playing, I didn't even worry about walls until I had a pretty big stockpile of Wrought/Steel and actually got somewhat invested in the game.
I haven't been robbed once.

[kobnach]

You are a strange fellow indeed if you find killing non-sentinent, simple AI bears that respawn every hour in any way a satisfying form of retribution to the death of a character that takes days of playing to create.

If that was addressed to me, well, I'm not the person who considers revenge to be adequate compensation for lost hours of grinding. I believe that was you who suggested revenge might make being killed by players relatively OK.

I like the idea of putting down those who initiate violence not for revenge, but for safety - if the player killer is busy grinding to restore his LP and/or idling to get back to full trad, he isn't busy killing someone else - and he might even rage quit.

With bears well, if I miscalculate and go somewhere I can't quite handle, I have the option of not going there again until I'm a lot stronger. There's no such option to avoid PK, as in that situation the aggressors may come to you.

[kobnach]

Where the hell are you living where you have to constantly be on defence? Why don't you move?

I've been living by myself since I started playing, I didn't even worry about walls until I had a pretty big stockpile of Wrought/Steel and actually got somewhat invested in the game.
I haven't been robbed once.

I have moved - twice now. My present location is not getting hit, so I'm still there.

Of course moving - and setting up a new settlement - to get away from some friendly neighbourhood griefer etc. - counts as time spent on defence, to me. Setting up the _first_ settlement was fun. Lather rinse and repeat is boring.

Also, the above was in the nature of a thought experiment - a limited map with present population levels, much rarer resources, and everyone starting out naked will, predictably, have a lot more conflict - or rather a lot more aggression, most of it quite imbalanced (easy victims/hopeless targets).

[Laremere]

Got bored reading the topic half way through, but I'd like to note:

Let me preface my argument by saying that I do not like change. I disliked the wall strength changes, I disliked the pathfinding changes, I disliked the increased cost of the black arts (which I still dislike, yet that is another thread in itself).

So you'd rather the devs never improve the game, they should just stop working all together. A new map would be a change. Heck, fixing a bug would be a change.

Seriously, grow up a bit. Change is going to happen in a game that is in development. Things are going to be balanced out, and that is just the way things are. If you can't stand the fact that the devs are going to change the game in a way they intend to, then stop playing, it's a very simple act to do, and doesn't give you any reason to bitch about how they are improving the game.

You may think one way, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

[Humps]

Got bored reading the topic half way through, but I'd like to note:

Let me preface my argument by saying that I do not like change. I disliked the wall strength changes, I disliked the pathfinding changes, I disliked the increased cost of the black arts (which I still dislike, yet that is another thread in itself).

So you'd rather the devs never improve the game, they should just stop working all together. A new map would be a change. Heck, fixing a bug would be a change.

Seriously, grow up a bit. Change is going to happen in a game that is in development. Things are going to be balanced out, and that is just the way things are. If you can't stand the fact that the devs are going to change the game in a way they intend to, then stop playing, it's a very simple act to do, and doesn't give you any reason to bitch about how they are improving the game.

You may think one way, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

You are a massive retard who didn't even read the entire post you useless, inept human being.

So when I write this, I consider that maybe this will once again be an example of me being proven wrong. That in fact, having an ever expanding map is actually a good thing. However, I fear that will not be the case.

Jesus christ you are stupid.

Edit: IT WAS ON THE NEXT GOD DAMN LINE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU AAAAAH.

[Pumpkin]

Got bored reading the topic half way through, but I'd like to note:

Let me preface my argument by saying that I do not like change. I disliked the wall strength changes, I disliked the pathfinding changes, I disliked the increased cost of the black arts (which I still dislike, yet that is another thread in itself).

So you'd rather the devs never improve the game, they should just stop working all together. A new map would be a change. Heck, fixing a bug would be a change.

Seriously, grow up a bit. Change is going to happen in a game that is in development. Things are going to be balanced out, and that is just the way things are. If you can't stand the fact that the devs are going to change the game in a way they intend to, then stop playing, it's a very simple act to do, and doesn't give you any reason to bitch about how they are improving the game.

You may think one way, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

You are a massive retard who didn't even read the entire post you useless, inept human being.

So when I write this, I consider that maybe this will once again be an example of me being proven wrong. That in fact, having an ever expanding map is actually a good thing. However, I fear that will not be the case.

Jesus christ you are stupid.

Edit: IT WAS ON THE NEXT GOD DAMN LINE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU AAAAAH.

quote

[Laremere]

You are a massive retard who didn't even read the entire post you useless, inept human being.

I read half the topic, but stopped reading it because people were saying the same things in circles. I addressed something that I had not seen anyone address, which is Pumpkin's stupid dislike of change in a game that is being developed.

Also, is it me or are you just using personal attacks on people with little reason?

Edit: There, I skimmed the rest of the topic I didn't read, and nobody even mentioned what I mentioned, just like I correctly though. So next time you go telling someone they're an idiot, make sure that they are actually wrong about what you're saying they're an idiot for doing.

[Pumpkin]

You are a massive retard who didn't even read the entire post you useless, inept human being.

I read half the topic, but stopped reading it because people were saying the same things in circles. I addressed something that I had not seen anyone address, which is Pumpkin's stupid dislike of change in a game that is being developed.

What are you even talking about?

You addressed an introductionary warning I wrote as a disclaimer that I am adverse to change.

What is the point of that?

That's like someone writing about spiders saying "Now bear in mind, I don't like spiders very much." and your only issue with the entire work is "WTF IS WRONG W/ U SPIDARZ ARE AWESUM YOU'RE STUPID STOP BEING A CHILD."


Get out of my thread.

[Jackard]

I agree with some of your speculation, but I'd rather test the new stuff before making judgements on it