Personal claims need to be weakened

[AnnaC]

Expanding a claim merely costs 10 LP per square meter. This is insignificant when you can feed an alt curios and have all it's LP going to a claim. So I definitely suggest increasing the LP cost to expand claims.

Again, since the curio system has been implemented, claims need to consider more things than simply being an LP sink, for their support and growth. Back in the olden days LP was gained through actions, the game could infer that some of this LP growth was due to economic work on the claim itself, so it made sense that claims only need some LP to expand. But now you don't have to do any work to gain LP, especially with an alt.

Claim expansion costs being increased, especially as they grow larger, would curtail the issue with alts, and although some legitimate newbies would incur a little more cost, it wouldn't make it more difficult for them (noobs need to stop building 4 timber houses when they have no economy or claim established yet). Learning to efficiently use space is a positive thing to learn in the hearthlands.

[barra]

the game could infer that some of this LP growth was due to economic work on the claim itself, so it made sense that claims only need some LP to expand. But now you don't have to do any work to gain LP, especially with an alt.

That's interesting, what if claim expansion was "fueled" by old-style LP generation tasks, instead of curio LP? Repetitive tasks that used to generate LP like farming or bucketing now give "claim expanding points" if you do them under the claim. Might be paired with decay in that absence of those tasks.

[AnnaC]

I don't really like that because there is no precedent with the current system, and it sounds like a grind. Going with entirely theoretical, I prefer my suggestion about having the claim determine its economic "value" by the structures and tools in it's influence, to set potential expansion capability.

[ImAwesome]

I like the idea of a value being given to a claim, there is sort of a presidence with the civilization thing for animals(where higher civilization levels lower animal levels). would be a good idea if a claim has absolutely nothing built on it it can't expand past maybe 20*20, while farms, houses, and production type buildings add to the claim's 'value' as they're used and allows it to be expanded more.

points for building:
log cabin 10 +5 for cellar
timber house 22 +10 for cellar
stone mansion 50 +15 for cellar
kiln 5
smelter 10

points for production ie 1 point for:
100 ticks in a kiln
100 ticks in a cauldron
50 ticks in a smelter
50 ticks in a crucible
20 ticks in a finery forge
20 growth ticks for crops(should be the easiest way to expand)

claim value determines how far you can expand...but of course then you'd have people just burning empty kilns to expand, but its better than them just doing nothing

[miraclew]

Expanding a claim merely costs 10 LP per square meter. This is insignificant when you can feed an alt curios and have all it's LP going to a claim. So I definitely suggest increasing the LP cost to expand claims.

What if there was an total LP gained requirement for expanding claims?

ex, basic 5x5 claim just requires Yeomanry. To get it beyond 10x10, you need 100k LP gained, 20x20 maybe 250k LP etc. Would still be fairly easy but requires a bit more investment into the character, without affecting the cost for people who change claims.

[Flame]

and what about the problem of resources to conquer? A town over every clay spot? So once the resources are token, end of the game?

[ImAwesome]

Expanding a claim merely costs 10 LP per square meter. This is insignificant when you can feed an alt curios and have all it's LP going to a claim. So I definitely suggest increasing the LP cost to expand claims.

What if there was an total LP gained requirement for expanding claims?

ex, basic 5x5 claim just requires Yeomanry. To get it beyond 10x10, you need 100k LP gained, 20x20 maybe 250k LP etc. Would still be fairly easy but requires a bit more investment into the character, without affecting the cost for people who change claims.

yipes my claim was bigger than 20X20 the day I got it...I could see that idea working, but numbers for smaller claims would have to be way lower.

[AnnaC]

-snip-

That's sort of an idea I had in mind, but you made a mistake by going into details about such a thing. That's what the math guys are for, and if the devs would ever want to implement such a system.

Expanding a claim merely costs 10 LP per square meter. This is insignificant when you can feed an alt curios and have all it's LP going to a claim. So I definitely suggest increasing the LP cost to expand claims.

What if there was an total LP gained requirement for expanding claims?

ex, basic 5x5 claim just requires Yeomanry. To get it beyond 10x10, you need 100k LP gained, 20x20 maybe 250k LP etc. Would still be fairly easy but requires a bit more investment into the character, without affecting the cost for people who change claims.

I think it's a little too arbitrary with its caps; it would be easier to just have the cost/tile increase as the claim gets larger.

and what about the problem of resources to conquer? A town over every clay spot? So once the resources are token, end of the game?

What are you talking about? That's what the game is NOW.

1. Find resource; 2. feed an alt curios; 3. claim resource

This is BAD gameplay, because personal claims do not change nor decay with the world around them. People whine about hearth vaults, well why do you think hearth vaults are in place? Because every resource in the world has some claim on it, even if it's a forgotten resource it still has a claim because personal claims never go away. Atleast villages decay, and if all resources were owned by villages or colonies of villages, atleast the owner of the resource has some identifier. You don't know who owns a resource when it's a personal claim (because it's likely an alt never online anyway), so you can't do anything about it; except leave your vandalism scents or whatever, and hide in your vault.

Since personal claims are so static, there needs to be much more cost to establish them; especially ones that are large. To do this in such a way that doesn't harm the already difficult to play, unprotected newbies, is what many of the topics in this thread are about.

[barra]

What are you talking about? That's what the game is NOW.

1. Find resource; 2. feed an alt curios; 3. claim resource

This is BAD gameplay, because personal claims do not change nor decay with the world around them. People whine about hearth vaults, well why do you think hearth vaults are in place? Because every resource in the world has some claim on it, even if it's a forgotten resource it still has a claim because personal claims never go away.

It's never really that bad. W3 when mines were all occupied, finding (really) abandoned mines or driving people off them was a bit of a pasttime for Fort Tiji. When it looked like everyone had figured it out in W6, I still today found a Q80 soil node buried in the middle of a huge undiggable moor that everyone had missed in the initial rush. The resources are always still out there.

And easy to level alts for claiming also means easy to level alts for vandal stealing everything except inland clay and soil. If a week of feeding alts curios can lock down a node, but a week of feeding an alt curios can also be sacrificed to steal several chests full of a node's resource, isn't it worth it?

[MagicManICT]

And easy to level alts for claiming also means easy to level alts for vandal stealing everything except inland clay and soil. If a week of feeding alts curios can lock down a node, but a week of feeding an alt curios can also be sacrificed to steal several chests full of a node's resource, isn't it worth it?

Although I thoroughly approve of this meta-game application of the current mechanics, should it REALLY be that way?

I REALLY wish I could come up with some other game examples where doing this was possible, but I can't. So many of the games where you could potentially do this forbid it right from the start. They've implemented tools in the code to detect or even just flat prevent the players from pulling shenanigans. Besides, the games I'm thinking of aren't really RPGs.