Stats not permanent

[NOOBY93]

4 AM.

If you think anyone who plays this game has a real life, you're terribly mistaken.

It's not risk-free if you have to siege a village to get to his HF.

The "do-gooders" usually do good by investigating and seeking proof.

And by the way: Obviously this game isn't in "levels". Not like WoW.

If you think bears are mid to end-game creatures, ponder on why everyone has bear capes at start of W7.
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT.

You think he should be granted immunity while I, who goes AFK because of Reddit and such, wouldn't?

itt: more asshat assumptions.

ps. Bears do have a level. Slinging them from a boat while they constantly try to grab at you while you're OBVIOUSLY not going to be reached is called bad AI. It's not how the game should be played. Why do you think bears give around q200 things? Holy shit.

Then I'm going to make a Tetris copy game, and instead of getting 1000 points per row and 10000 points per tetris, I will make it give 1337 million points per row.
You don't compare Q200 bear tooth with Q200 dragon helm, devs didn't intend stuff at same Q but different kind of stuff be compared at difficulty to achieve.
Now please, kill a bear anytime, end-game, and get Q200 stuff. Then, get a Q200 pearl if you can.

That "level" is only affected by if they spawned near a village, it's pretty meaningless.
It's not like someone will pay you 1000 points for Q200 bear tooths because they're Q200. They're not relevant.
"Like holy shit, I just bought a Q200 bloody rag for a pearl. That merchant is SUCH A SUCKER!"

[Scubas]

Then I'm going to make a Tetris copy game, and instead of getting 1000 points per row and 10000 points per tetris, I will make it give 1337 million points per row.

What are you even going on about?

Now please, kill a bear anytime, end-game, and get Q200 stuff. Then, get a Q200 pearl if you can.

You seem to be coming to yet another asshat conclusion that when I say mid to endgame, I definitely mean ONLY endgame, and that q200 bear items are on par with high quality pearls.

What I mean with the q200 bear parts bit, is at the start of the new world, my character was fishing q1 fish. Making a q5 stone axe. Why, in the next hours, was I able to be taking on an enemy that could literally kill me in two hits - to eventually kill it, salvaging its parts and using q140+ bones, and eating q60-something meat. There is no pacing involved in that. Just because people are literally able to kill a bear doesn't mean that they're intended to be beginning-of-the-game mobs. It means that they knew how to abuse a stupid mechanic that would never work in any true mirror of "realism".

That "level" is only affected by if they spawned near a village, it's pretty meaningless.

Pretty meaningless? Their level used to determine how much LP you'd get from them, and as far as I know, it still determines how much health they have. I wouldn't call that "meaningless". And that's besides the point anyway: I gave an example from a game like WoW because it was easy to understand. The same concept applies to the fact that you shouldn't be able to engage a creature with much, much higher combat ability than you. Here, you can do it simply by abusing a gameplay mechanic. It would be different if shooting shit from a boat took any degree of skill, but it doesn't. You aim your shot, then turn and watch TV or whatever for a minute, turn back and click the mouse. ROGUELIKE WITH ACTION-PACKED GAMEPLAY, AND REALISTIC SURVIVAL ELEMENTS

[Danno]

ROGUELIKE WITH ACTION-PACKED GAMEPLAY, AND REALISTIC SURVIVAL ELEMENTS

lolirl

4 AM.
Too much tl;dr.
Out of respect, I bothered to read half of it.
Stopped at "real lives"

Holy shit you're dense. And if you're gonna whine about tl;dr, then throw away your keyboard because you won't need it. You might appreciate talking to people in real life instead if you so hate the concept of communication through text.

As Scubastove explained, you are an idiot.

1. You don't need a sling or a boat to kill a bear.
2. You aren't familiar with the term "soak" in this game? As a comparison, try punching a brick wall IRL. Now, get some other weakling friends, and punch the same spot in the wall together with them.
Won't budge? That's soak.
All of those people need 600 strength and a stone axe to damage the palisade even a little bit, hence the ram.
3. Aren't all potential threats visible IRL? And that zone isn't a danger radius.
4. Killing AFK players... Don't see the problem. What is the concern here, you want AFK people to be invulnerable? Why? Their problem they AFK.
5. You do know what their crime was, by the scent system. And if you didn't, don't know how that's a problem, again.
This was just painful to read...

1. Everyone does it because you have 0% chance of having any harm inflicted upon yourself while you do so. That was the only point I was making.

2. This is a game, so it doesn't need to be 100% realistic. It is a game that attempts some degree of realism, though. If we wanna be completely realistic, I wouldn't bother destroying a palisade or a brickwall; I'd move objects closer to it or build a ladder so I can simply climb over. What it comes down to is that this game offers us 2 types of walls for defense - one that can be destroyed by lower end players and one that only higher end players can destroy. Both walls are designed to be solid and offer security. Yes, the wood should be easier to destroy. Hence one person with a ram and 36 strength being enough to destroy it instead of needing 3 people at the ram. Why do you insist that someone should be able to destroy a palisade on their own with no notice to the inhabitants?

3. No, they aren't. Do you have eyes on the back of your head? Can you see someone ducking behind a trashcan in an alley? Maybe you think you should be able to see every threat because you're on a third person view and have a nice little view of everything around you, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should see it all.

4. My only point was that you do so because they can't fight back, thus giving you 0% risk of being harmed.

5. You don't know their true crime whatsoever. "Well, gee, this here track-a-ma-bob told me that this feller here done went n assaulted someone! I better go murder the shit out of him and destroy all his hard work for his heinous crimes." Reality check: maybe he KO'd his friend as a joke and they're totally cool with it. It is risk free because this is where people often use their palibasher to kill the perp while they're offline with no notice of being sieged. I've heard people even rebuild the palisade to make it look like nothing happened. It's pathetically cowardly.
Unless it was something really personal, or unless they were hired, do-gooders don't bother when it comes to a brickwall because it's no longer easy and risk-free. Unless they can abuse a glitch like jumping through the corner of a hill to keep it nice n' risk-free, of course.


Bears are mid-end game enemies for direct combat. You can kill ants, you can kill a fox, you can eventually kill a boar... But why is it that you can't kill a bear unarmed or with weapons unless you get your unarmed/melee stat way up there and fight it in a group? Because it's an end-game animal that'll kill you dead within a few hits. If the AI was good enough that bears could swim, you might think twice about calling them some generic fodder when you hold your head up high with 15 marksmanship and a q10 sling.
The only reason ranged combat is exempt from challenges is because people abuse its incomplete design, not because bears are lame ass enemies you can (or should be able to) kill in your sleep.


THE POINT OF ALL THIS: People are too paranoid to play the game. That's why they want everything handed to them risk-free and with no effort, which kills the gameplay or meaning of achievements in this game.

[Arcanist]

What quality are you this map Danno?

[SuperNoob]

I can't beleive this thread is still going...but since it is and I was quoted I'll respond to that part(and that part only) then I'm leaving the thread since its a horrible idea that won't add anything to game play and just destroy half the current mechanics that are used for pretty much everything in the game.

If you'd get another FEP level up for strength, you'd have 194 strength, 1 intelligence, and be unable to increase your strength any further, but you could shift your stats around if you eat non-strength foods.

it takes 625 strength and a stone axe to damage a palisade(or 36 strength and a ram)

still don't see the problem?

So get 36 strength and a ram instead of being a palibasher. Or possibly 3 super strength characters wearing bear capes and bear necklaces to concentrate on one wall segment and take it out together without a ram. No, I don't see the problem.

a bear tooth talisman at q200(max level) gives you 13 strength
a bear cape at q200(again max level) gives you 44 strength
your MAX strength idea gives you 194 strength

add that all up you get 251
so you go full barbarism for the strength bonus, gives you +30%, so another 75 strength for a total of 326

with 326 strength you do 18 damage, a sledge hammer adds 4 damage, that means you'll do a total of 22 damage with a sledge hammer while a palisade/timber house have soaks of 25...that means you'll HAVE to build a ram to get in. so build a ram and sit right beside it for 24 hours so noone destroys it before you can use it(easilly destroyed by the way, and you'll have to be able to kill anyone who comes to destroy it). if you still don't see the problem then I suggest you actually play HnH for a while and see how things work then you'll understand the problem with this idea.

now I'm not sure if you've ever watched a renovation show or not but people with sledge hammers take out all types of things(including brick walls). yes it takes some muscle but its fun to do watch this video to see it done, and notice the guy doesn't have a flask of water in the middle even though hes a bit tired

to the guy who said palisades are solid wood please remember it takes 3 blocks of wood to make each palisade section and 2 blocks of wood to make clogs...

[Scubas]

...that means you'll HAVE to build a ram to get in.

That's the idea, genius.

When building a ram, waiting for it to become ready is the RISK you should have to take to perform a raid on an established place. How else would it make sense to get loads of goods for what is essentially free, except for leaving criminal scents all over the place?

Raids on places should be an organized ordeal. Not just one asshole meandering up and destroying torso-thick walls and instantly gaining access to everything within. In a game based around survival and semi-realism, the thought of that being a thing you can do is just absolutely retarded in my opinion.

to the guy who said palisades are solid wood please remember it takes 3 blocks of wood to make each palisade section and 2 blocks of wood to make clogs...

What's your point...? The crafting materials=>output is silly for a lot of items. You can make a water-tight bucket out of a single board. You can make a crate using 4 boards, but newflash: you would actually need one more board to make a crate with 4 sides that is able to contain objects. The difference in this case, is what ACTUALLY becomes an object from 3 blocks of wood, is a wall of thick logs, roughly the size of a hearthling each. It's made that way so that you don't have to clear-cut miles of the forest just to make a small palisade. Doesn't mean that you should be able to dispose the wall as easily as you'd be able to break a pair and a half of clogs.

[SuperNoob]

...that means you'll HAVE to build a ram to get in.

That's the idea, genius.

When building a ram, waiting for it to become ready is the RISK you should have to take to perform a raid on an established place. How else would it make sense to get loads of goods for what is essentially free, except for leaving criminal scents all over the place?

what if its not an established place? what if its just some noobs with a palisade? think of it this way, you(the real you not your character) live in a house: anyone at any time can walk up and kick in your door and try to kill you. whats the risk to them? the risk is that its against the law and there are punishments for breaking the law if you're caught...so basicly thats the same as leaving criminal scents. of course you can get some really strong door, lots of locks, but really a good kick will take down most doors.

Raids on places should be an organized ordeal. Not just one asshole meandering up and destroying torso-thick walls and instantly gaining access to everything within. In a game based around survival and semi-realism, the thought of that being a thing you can do is just absolutely retarded in my opinion.

lets keep with my previous scenario, would someone sit outside a house 24 hours before going in to rob it with a big sign telling everyone they plan to rob that house? if you're sitting around a place with a ram thats pretty much what you're doing telling everyone you're about to break into a place!

to the guy who said palisades are solid wood please remember it takes 3 blocks of wood to make each palisade section and 2 blocks of wood to make clogs...

What's your point...? The crafting materials=>output is silly for a lot of items. You can make a water-tight bucket out of a single board. You can make a crate using 4 boards, but newflash: you would actually need one more board to make a crate with 4 sides that is able to contain objects.

I see no point you're making here, my point was that in this game a palisade is no more solid than a pair of clogs, your illogical building of a crate has no bearing on that(1 board for the bottom 1 for each side, thats 3 then half a board for the ends does add up to 4).

The difference in this case, is what ACTUALLY becomes an object from 3 blocks of wood, is a wall of thick logs, roughly the size of a hearthling each. It's made that way so that you don't have to clear-cut miles of the forest just to make a small palisade. Doesn't mean that you should be able to dispose the wall as easily as you'd be able to break a pair and a half of clogs.

exactly! its just a wooden wall, you can chop through wood with an axe(or you wouldn't have the wood to build that palisade), soak is added so newbs like you can have a little protection from a small investment.

you seem to argue against any point I try to make here, but you haven't added a single point to back up the basic idea. the idea is bad, so don't just try to argue and rebuff my points add some points of your own as to why such a bad idea should ever be considered.

ps: this is just the numbers needed for a palisade, a brick wall has 70 soak...with a maximum damage of 18 and a ram doing 20 thats 38damage which is just over half the soak of a BW meaning if this is implemented when someone builds a BW they are 100% safe and that wall will never go anywhere!

pps: I'm not a raider, and I rarely kill people here. I do however know there are many ways to stay safe in this game and that if someone comes along to grief you its serious hell trying to get revenge...do you realize with this system in place griefers will still grief, but theres no way to ever get retribution.

to anyone who isn't a dumb ass sorry about the text wall...

[TeckXKnight]

What's your point...? The crafting materials=>output is silly for a lot of items. You can make a water-tight bucket out of a single board. You can make a crate using 4 boards, but newflash: you would actually need one more board to make a crate with 4 sides that is able to contain objects. The difference in this case, is what ACTUALLY becomes an object from 3 blocks of wood, is a wall of thick logs, roughly the size of a hearthling each. It's made that way so that you don't have to clear-cut miles of the forest just to make a small palisade. Doesn't mean that you should be able to dispose the wall as easily as you'd be able to break a pair and a half of clogs.

The point is a painfully, impossibly disproportionate amount of output for input. For 3 wood blocks you can effectively stop the most endgame of all raiders ever and no player might be able to tear down your work for years after you've left. That's shit and you end up with invincible raiders who can kill everyone without repercussions all over again as we saw with vaults.

Stop making suggestions that make players immortal or bases invincible; it goes against the nature of the game and inevitably makes everything worse for it.

[Scubas]

you seem to argue against any point I try to make here, but you haven't added a single point to back up the basic idea.

to anyone who isn't a dumb ass sorry about the text wall...

Why should I put time and effort into making a post backing the basic idea when no one but me seems to actually fucking understand what he's saying? Please refer to my very first post in this thread regarding asshat assumptions, and you will (perhaps) begin to get it. Also, the whole quoting my name as ''dumb ass'' doesn't make you seem very mature at all, mate. Which further bolsters the fact that I don't give a shit about pleasing what your opinion of my response to this crap should be.

I joined this thread responding to nooby93, in regards to his wild claims about killing bears and w/e. I just so happened to still be in that discussion when you stuck your gigantic ego-trip in.

think of it this way, you(the real you not your character) live in a house: anyone at any time can walk up and kick in your door and try to kill you. whats the risk to them? the risk is that its against the law and there are punishments for breaking the law if you're caught...so basicly thats the same as leaving criminal scents. of course you can get some really strong door, lots of locks, but really a good kick will take down most doors.

...lets keep with my previous scenario, would someone sit outside a house 24 hours before going in to rob it with a big sign telling everyone they plan to rob that house? if you're sitting around a place with a ram thats pretty much what you're doing telling everyone you're about to break into a place!

I hate to break it to you, but crimes IRL are highly organized, whether it be a group, or just within the mind of one criminal. A huge amount of planning goes into a real crime, unless you're just reckless/stupid, and if you are, you're bound to get caught straight away, anyway. In haven, I think the large amount of time needing to settle a ram is a great mechanic. If you're so concerned about it becoming destroyed, it doesn't take much effort for you and whoever else is going to help raid to make a small encampment around the ram and guard it. If you're in any sort of position to do some kind of raid, you should be able to defend yourself against the people within. If they come outside and try to attack you, they run the risk of getting killed, themselves, and making the upcoming raid that much easier for you. It's not a hard concept to follow. If I saw a ram outside of my establishment with 3-4 people guarding it...I definitely wouldn't go trotting out there alone. If we're going to all be assuming things, as stated before "No one on this game has a life", then hell, you've got a lot of free time to stand there with your buddies next to the ram and look intimidating.

Also, I think you watch too many action movies, because there are plenty of doors, and walls for that matter, that aren't going to go down just because some idiot thinks he's a badass.

I see no point you're making here, my point was that in this game a palisade is no more solid than a pair of clogs

I can drop clogs into a river and they will disappear forever. I am willing to bet you if they were an actual destroyable object, they'd be pretty easy to destroy. My ENTIRE POINT was the fact that the outcome is more than the sum of its parts regarding a palisade. And for the record, I had no idea such mechanics as karate chopping a fucking board into perfect halves to create the sides of a crate were actual considered methods of crate building. Fascinating!

Stop making suggestions that make players immortal or bases invincible; it goes against the nature of the game and inevitably makes everything worse for it.

Palisades are not invincible, nor would the suggested idea make them invincible. While I do agree to an extent that 3 blocks =/= a wall, I DO think it would be a problem if it was raised to say, ten wood blocks, because it would roughly triple the amount of trees needed to build any given palisade, and it would make it an utterly huge pain in the ass to complete.

A ram should be necessary to take down a palisade, that is what I think. One could argue, that sort of makes the painstaking task of building a brick wall pointless considering you'd have to invoke the same method of building a palisade ram to take it down. I'd like to point out the fact that this idea that Danno is presenting is not a concrete thing that absolutely HAS to be the way he described it at first. Please take note that in his original post, he said quite often: "There could be" this, and "There could be" that. Please don't fall into the abyss that is making more asshat assumptions, too. This is the IDEAS subforum, not the ''everything posted within should be taken word for word with absolutely no room for improvement or change to the original idea", subforum.

And hey, while we're at it, I'll pitch an idea of my own. What about a ram made out of wood that is the primary method of taking down a palisade, and then there is a separate ram made of metal parts, i.e. a huge metal spike or whatever on the end, and is the only means of taking down a brick wall? It would still require raids on both palisaded claims, and bricked claims to be organized, and separates the two by a (albeit varying) degree of difficulty in terms of obtaining the parts. If you like the idea or hate it, I don't give a shit. Just don't assume that by my suggesting what I just wrote; that a half-formulated idea that I came up with at 2:12am, that I expect it IS, or DEFINITELY SHOULD be made into the game, immediately.

[NOOBY93]

If a ram is required palisade is invincible because people can make like 10 alts and attack the ram, trying to break it.
If four people were guarding they would successfully kill four alts before the ram is broken (because they lose their attack bar) and you can make infinite alts.
Thing is, if it's harder to destroy the palisade than kill or do anything, that's not balanced and I think that's what Teck's point was.
Raiders > rangers then.