'Belief' Slider:Metabolism

[Chakravanti]

I have to disagree. Why would there be an 'optimal' side to this bar? As I said, early game would favor low hunger. As one progresses with their ability to produce and desire to consume then they will adjust toward a higher metabolism. I do not see why, other than very early game, one sid eor the other is better. In fact I would think the somewhere in the middle with only a minor adjustment one way or the other would be much more optimal.

The beauty of this is that if high metabolism is too OP then the FEP mod can be increased. Likewise if the low metabolism is too OP then the buff can be decreased. The sliders do not have to be balanced against each other but rather can be balanced to reflect gameplay.

This means that sure, people could stil macro hunger at low metabolism to make their shit worth just a bit more but it seems me that the effort might be just as well spent on production with a higher metabolism.

Not everyone's production rates are going to be equal to their amount of time played. Some people may desire to be doing a lot of activities beyond producing food. The frustration of finding balance in the current setup is creating a metabolism that doesn't screw productive people out of development and yet allows less productive or nub people to still survive while managing to get some shit done.

So you say players would switch to the obvious optimal spec but I'm just failing to see which side of the slider you think is optimal and why and adjustment of effects wouldn't prevent it from being OP.

[Jackard]

so im curious, exactly how long are you willing to argue in favor of something youve already admitted is not a great idea

cause they arent likely to accept anything less than great

[Chakravanti]

Actually, it's that the more I think about it. The more I like this setup. It's even better than my tea proposal because it is more easily tweaked for balance and and less clicky than tea (which is a serious pitfa to mine with imho).

So, I'm curious, how long you will take to make your criticisms specific enough to be addressed? Tbh I don't prefer to argue but I do appreciate the feedback and any holes pointed out that prompt me to consider new formulations. So thanks for that.

[Fetdaniel]

Of course this MIGHT be a coincidence, but this is very similar to my VERY RECENT proposition for variable hunger, which i also called metabolism slider..

My idea is that a person who lives on a minimum of food is weaker in many sences, and a person who eats alot can manage a better concentration and heavier work. If you live by just scavanging the countryside with little or no money, you are probably quite fatigued most of the time. But if you work as a lumberjack in a village you proabably stuff yourself with lots of high calorie foods to be able to work so much. This essentially is a somewhat realistic way of encouraging cooperation and specialisation, but at the same time allowing the hermit to live freely without strain.

Perhaps the change implies atribute or skillincreases instead of feppoint manipulation? like barbarism and civilisation does atm? So the development of your character isn't severely hindered by eating little food, but making your efforts a little more meager, while if you eat twice as much food as usual you could get 20% increase on stats and skills or similar?

The main reason i thought this fit on the belief slider is actually not that it's a belief in essence, but rather i like the mechanic of having to slowly change it somehow. But i wouldn't like a full change person more rapidly changing his diet, i would think it should be seperate, and not linear. If you have eaten VERY little it should take more time to start eating more, and if you eat loads it should be hard to start eating less, so that extremes are quite risky. A moderate eating person can start eating more or less more easily.

1. this would help any new player who is still trying to learn the game mechanics and will let them screw around with stuff.
2. This is in line with the philosophy "you are what you eat" perhaps it wouldn't be a slider but a measure of how often you are full/overstuffed or hungry/very hungry? This needs some thought.
3. This makes it possible to have a person who eats alot more be better in general, so it makes the rich more rich in a sense, and also making it more interesting as you push towards eating tons of food just to inch your way up the statlist, while producing high quality stuff. But perhaps it should be more strength/con related, but I think all stats should increase a little. Perhaps only attributes though. Then we have three factors. the attribute, the skill and the metabolism.

EDIT: making the change depend on how hungry your character are over a period of time is nothing short of beautiful. Then you can let the fat bastards quaff fep like there is no tomorrow, since they payed for it by eating alot, people will want to eat, so food never stops to be important. (aside fep of course) If you can't just change a slider, then I think it doesn't matter if it improves your character, since optimum is eating anyway, it makes sense. And if you have pushed your eating habits to the extremes if you ever run out of food you're in for some heavy starvation since the "slider" will go down slower the more extreme your diet is.

Yes you can thank me now. I rock I know.

[ImpalerWrG]

The problem with ALL the slider mechanics is that

1 - They never represent real choices between options of similar value, if your not a total newb you know that their is only ONE correct way to adjust your sliders. Its not a matter of weighing some fine balance, if you want to be at all competative you make the right choices or you make the wrong ones, once you know whats right you never think about it again and moving the slider becomes a chore.

2 - The middle of the slider is a dead zone used for nothing but transitioning. As a side effect of #1 the slider is essentially reduced to a binary choice, all to the left or all the the right.

Propose an idea that solves these and then you'll get the adulation you crave.

[Jackard]

Exactly.

Nearly everyone goes Life.
Everyone ignores Night/Day.
Everyone goes Barbarism.
Most players go Nature, since few are able or interested in Mining/Smithing
Warriors thieves and cowards go Tradition, everyone else goes full Change.

Most of these sliders are one-shots, and Martial/Peace are about as close as people have to a real choice.

[Chakravanti]

Of course this MIGHT be a coincidence, but this is very similar to my VERY RECENT proposition for variable hunger, which i also called metabolism slider..

I was sure someone had proposed the idea before. It had a gnawing familiarity to me. =d

Propose an idea that solves these and then you'll get the adulation you crave.

LOL @ craving praise from random people on the internet. As I've said before I'm crazy not stupid. To seek praise for ideas on this, of all forums, is quite futile.

But I believe that the issue of other sliders is an independent concept from this proposition. In fact, I do believe that this concept stands aside form teh other sliders for this reason. That it is not in fact ideal to pick one end or the other but find a place near the middle that fits your desired level of activity for the time being. That the far ends of the sliders be so extreme that that are not desireable, most particularily for a person at tradition. The only time one might lean heavily toward a high metabolism is when they have a huge stockpile of food they need to consume and then go back toward the middle. Whereas when one lives a life where it is either diffiuclt to procure food or not within one's goals then the lower metabolism might be desired (Mining alts, noobs).

The issue of 'mining alts' here would probably give undue buffs to them but personally I've always used the mining activity as a method for developing a breaker/murder alt. Under the current combat system I'd actually rather just suicide starve my miner alts and spawn another because I don't see them as worth preserving and devloping under the current combat system. Especially given the scarcity of food at this early stage of development (and difficulty in procuring good str feps).

I believe THAT issue is as well aside from this slider and should be addressed by modifying the nat/ind slider.

Also, LOL @ Jackard for continuing to dodge my inquiries.

[lithos]

The hungrier you are the more food should fill you up and the less FEP you gain. The fuller you are the less food fills you up and the more FEP you gain.

Solves the problem of newbies having difficulty surviving, still allowing "Pushing", and is far more adaptable than some slider that takes 40 to 80 hours of game time to mess with.

[Jackard]

Also, LOL @ Jackard for continuing to dodge my inquiries.

i believe ive already made my views plain on this and im not much interested in repeating them for you

[Chakravanti]

i believe ive already made my views plain on this and im not much interested in repeating them for you

You haven't. I made a very specific inquiry that you haven't specified anywhere in this thread. That being, which side of the slider proposed is 'obviously' superior.

The hungrier you are the more food should fill you up and the less FEP you gain. The fuller you are the less food fills you up and the more FEP you gain.

Solves the problem of newbies having difficulty surviving, still allowing "Pushing", and is far more adaptable than some slider that takes 40 to 80 hours of game time to mess with.

Workaround: Stat push by plowing as in the current system but just keep the bar green as you do so.

Shits on nubs: Making them stay 'very hungry' to maximize the hunger gain and survivability, thus nerfing their ability to gain FEPs and character development.