No more PK'ing and trust groups

[Prism]

Pvp will, unsurprisingly, not be removed.

PvP is goofy and weird the way it is, and has a spectacular ability to turn otherwise dedicated and eager players off the game in droves. It's not good game design.

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010

wise beyond my years

[sabinati]

so tell me about the pvp you've seen or experienced firsthand

[Aleksei]

so tell me about the pvp you've seen or experienced firsthand

Harassing other forum members Sabs?

[jorb]

PvP is by no means perfect. I am well aware of the conditions some 'griefed' people live under, but... jesus christ... how long do you think you would have lasted in migrations period Europe as an independent farmer?

It is too hard to defend yourself. Claims do too little as it is. But regardless of what specific mechanic we put in place to allow for better defenses, I am not completely going to undercut the freedom of action that fundamentally is what makes this a fun game. I think it would be downright unreasonable if a town full of high level players couldn't indiscriminately raid and kill newbs who live on their own.

[sabinati]

so tell me about the pvp you've seen or experienced firsthand

Harassing other forum members Sabs?

my point was that there is a lot of drama on the forum about people getting killed and what-not, but it's really not that common in the game. and being killed or raided shouldn't be a game ender. you (the generic, figurative "you") had fun and learned a lot in the time you played. do you quit when you lose other games? hell, there are so many people here from dwarf fortress i'm surprised we don't see threads like "I Died And It Was Awesome".

[jorb]

I have only lost a character once in a real fight, and it was, indeed, awesome. It is one of my fondest memories of this game. Shame I never got even with that little...!

[Sidran]

I think it would be downright unreasonable if a town full of high level players couldn't indiscriminately raid and kill newbs who live on their own.

I agree, but medieval world was also full of rumors spread by millions of people at the same time. After harassing someone and raping their claim, perpetrators should have : bully, thief, murderer, plunderer, madman above their head for everyone who meets them to see. Their status must be obvious to known and unknown people. Or something else. It needs sophistication.

Can you share with us at least general direction you're aiming at balancing these issues? I saw some posts where you mention passive claim defense etc..

[Avu]

Again with the dying. Dying means shit (especially for the combat characters who in the right conditions actually benefit from it and all so called grieffers worth their salt are combat characters) the real pain is having to relocate and let's be honest here if some big bad guy has his eyes set into ruining your game you have to move because they can and will come every week to fuck with you and even then they can track you down again if you don't change your identity and many of your contacts and people have been killed more than one time for suggestions made or some other forum bullshit that has nothing to do with the ingame politics.

As for you not having witnessed death much well get out more. It happens all over the place: Brodgar abandoned due to raids resulting in deaths, tricities almost dead because of raids with deaths, prontera probably dead because of raids with deaths. Only place that got raided seriously and is still around is xanadu and that's because the goons are too proud and stubborn to quit though I'm pretty sure they must have lost some players too. There's always some that quit after getting raided. It takes a really hardcore group to survive the post invasion.

And jorb how about we stop penalizing crafters with teh death system? Why should combat characters that can easily murder tons of farmers and merchants and whatnot (because they can afford filling their inventory with water) get ancestors that will make them even stronger when a dead crafter becomes no better than a noob. While you're at it change the fail tradition/change slider too to something that doesn't help only people intent on killing others. The way it works now you can't help revenge your dead comrades because by the time your slider reaches full trad the murder scents are long gone not to mention the vandalism ones. Attackers have all the advantages let's not help them too eh?

[Jackard]

what a sad thread

[jorb]

I have written a wall of text on it somewhere. Basically I want the claim to bite back, and not just act as a passive recorder of crimes committed. Defenses come with scaling costs. Attacks, in many situations, do not. That is a fundamental imbalance.

Avu, I think your analysis of the tradition/change mechanic is flawed. Death is not the boon you make it out to be. I am thereby not trying to maintain that the mechanic is perfectly implemented.

Attackers have the advantage, yes. Primarily locatively and temporally so. No contest there, and that should be addressed. I think the battering ram was a (baby) step in the right direction.