Animal level's and such

[DigDog]

Now that is something I can agree with.

[Potjeh]

I disagree on frequency of animals, they're too common IMO. Hunting should be a more involved activity (tracking, hounds, traps...), kills should be much rarer but much more rewarding. And I don't mean they should give more LP, I mean they should give more stuff when you butcher them. Killing animals just for the sake of grinding degrades them to nothing more but chunks of LP, and is an atmosphere killer in general (forests littered with unbutchered corpses look super lame).

Also, I don't think that mobs will ever be able to provide engaging and non-repetitive end-game, simply because they're AI controlled. End-game is what PvP is for, so efforts to improve end-game should be focused on improving PvP.

Anyway, the main problem is that the game is built to discourage PvP. Like I always say: permadeath, high time investment, PvP - pick just two. Permadeath and PvP are the obvious choices here, so time investment needs to be tackled. The main problem here is that there isn't any limits to how high your skills can get, so time investment is essentially infinite. Now, lack of hardcoded limits is a common theme throughout H&H, so this limit should also stem from the system at large.

One idea I proposed before was focus items (training dummies, mini-forges, etc) that you need to transmute LP into skills. The cost of raising a skill should be proportionate to focus q/skill level, with the cost approaching infinity as this number approaches 0.5 (ie 2x focus q is the "hard" cap). The quality of focus items would be determined by your tech level, which should be determined by your infrastructure and natural resources. Farming, jewellery and anything else that depends on skill alone needs to change so it depends on infrastructure and resources.

With the above in place, all we need is methods for conquering land to make H&H a PvP-heavy game. Strengthening your group through acquirement of developed land (irrigation, fertilization, the works) or natural resources (high q spring, gold mine, etc) is a much better motivation for players to fight than schadenfreude (main motivation currently).

Another thing to consider is making LP come from items rather than activities. I think it's working great for stats, and it'd reward player interaction over solo grinding as long as diversity of LP items is important. As an added bonus, it'd be a deathblow to LP macros and bad grind such as converting large swaths of forest into buckets or killing a million animals and just leaving them to rot there.

[Sotsa]

words

or the community can just man up, stop being babies, and fearlessly charge to death like me.

Edit: on a more serious note i'm all for localization of resources, that would be cool.

[Jackard]

words

Nothing new there, but I've either agreed with everything above or said it myself in the past. Especially the notes on how you should be hunting animals for resources instead wastefully farming them for LP and that the game is actually set up to discourage PvP, which is not something we want.

Another thing to consider is making LP come from items rather than activities. I think it's working great for stats, and it'd reward player interaction over solo grinding as long as diversity of LP items is important. As an added bonus, it'd be a deathblow to LP macros and bad grind such as converting large swaths of forest into buckets or killing a million animals and just leaving them to rot there.

Also you might as well come out and admit that this is part of the new system they are working on.

[Potjeh]

Yeah, that post is mostly for keeping new people up to date with my views, all of it should be familiar to the old guard.

I didn't want to say what J&L are working on because it's very likely to change.

[spectacle]

There's already huge benefits from being part of an organized group, I like the fact that hermits can grind LP as well as anyone. Make a village necessary to gain decent skills as well, and the hermits might as well go play Farmville.

[Potjeh]

You don't have to be in a village to participate in the global economy.

[DatOneGuy]

I agree with everything except that high investment, PvP and permadeath being exclusive, I think you can have all 3, but it needs a lot of things that we don't have yet.

I'd like to see those things, yes, but I'd also like to see what the devs have in place for such things. They haven't made many (or any?) bad choices overall with the game besides things that are placeholder or leaving things in long without 'finishing' the system.

I think that with some of the things we're already seeing they're working on we can see PvP, permadeath, and high investment all live decently well together, we just need more things worth fighting over, and better ways TO fight.

[spectacle]

Yeah, the dire consequences of death doesn't stop people from fighting in the real world, and it won't stop us from fighting in H&H either, if only there are reasons to fight.

[Jackard]

I agree with everything except that high investment, PvP and permadeath being exclusive, I think you can have all 3, but it needs a lot of things that we don't have yet.

I'd like to see those things, yes, but I'd also like to see what the devs have in place for such things. They haven't made many (or any?) bad choices overall with the game besides things that are placeholder or leaving things in long without 'finishing' the system.

I think that with some of the things we're already seeing they're working on we can see PvP, permadeath, and high investment all live decently well together, we just need more things worth fighting over, and better ways TO fight.

Can you name an example where "all three lived decently well together"? Every indie game I've encountered the combination in has been plagued with problems and a low population. Their incompatibility seems obvious even at a glance - if you require that people grind their characters, the majority aren't going to willingly participate in mortal combat, they will avoid what is a core part of the game by any means possible. And should they fail to avoid it, they quit the game instead of starting over.

What exactly are you basing this belief on?