Bugssy wrote:Imagine, if you could discuss this topic like rational, able minded people, we may just come up with something even better. I hate to sound like a hippie, but in this case, cooperation would be far more constructive here.
Most of us have discussed the topic to death. The overall conclusion was that the curiosity system was an experimental step but was definitely a step in the right direction. The system has already changed in ways that aren't present in Haven, primarily looking at the FEP system and building off of that. Reduction of the passiveness found in curiosities is likely the best move. Otherwise it's difficult to say how to improve it with any certainty.
That said, if you're actually looking to discuss it this probably isn't a great thread. Youkai has done a great job at ticking everyone off. You'll get cooler heads if you wait a bit.
Bugssy wrote:Imagine, if you could discuss this topic like rational, able minded people, we may just come up with something even better. I hate to sound like a hippie, but in this case, cooperation would be far more constructive here.
Most of us have discussed the topic to death. The overall conclusion was that the curiosity system was an experimental step but was definitely a step in the right direction. The system has already changed in ways that aren't present in Haven, primarily looking at the FEP system and building off of that. Reduction of the passiveness found in curiosities is likely the best move. Otherwise it's difficult to say how to improve it with any certainty.
That said, if you're actually looking to discuss it this probably isn't a great thread. Youkai has done a great job at ticking everyone off. You'll get cooler heads if you wait a bit.
You know for a fact that if it's brought up in any capacity that isn't showering the curiosity system with praise it's going to "tick people off".
YoukaiMori wrote: I never said there was no point, just that you get nothing out of doing it.
Old: Run around finding something Use that something to do literally anything
You're comparing two systems here, that means you're implying with current system you can't or have no point to do literally anything.
Unless you count "satisfaction of building a house which by the way you have to wait 3 in game days to actually build" as the reward for the action.
I do. Because I need that house to store my things. The waiting for house part has nothing to do with lp system, this is nothing more than fast and easy anti griefing solution. I'm sure it will be fixed in Haven 2.0, because it's flaws are obvious for everyone, including devs.
I mean, waiting hours on end for LP, waiting hours on end to be able to construct a house, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting isn't fun. When you are playing a game you want to be playing the game, not waiting several hours for a momentary fun spike and then back to doing nothing waiting several more hours, repeat.
I don't know any mmo with char development system, in which you can do much on your first day.
There is a cap, you could say, on how much fun you're allowed to have in a set time period. Let me give an example.
Myself and a group of friends are playing H&H. We start looking for ways to gain LP, as it is, finding an item for the first time gives you a (Very) small amount, so we just run around and pick up one of everything. Not exactly fun, just tedious, because half of what we pick up has no use to us any time soon, we are collecting these things purely because this is the only way for us to gain LP.
So we make some cone cows, these give a tiny amount of LP (50) for waiting 20 minutes. Now, let's keep in mind that same 50LP would have been done from picking 5 branches and building a fire back in the day, but it now takes 20 minutes.
Well now we're out of things to pick up for the first time to gain LP and are stuck waiting for these cone cows to research, what can we do until we get more LP? A lot of nothing, because when you start you can craft basically nothing, so we wander aimlessly ignoring everything along the way because we can't use any of it and gathering it wouldn't do us any good. That is, we have no skills and we're not seeing random shit on the ground to pick up yet, since we're new characters.
And oh look! We find a dragonfly, a whopping 800 LP in, oh what's that, 4 hours. Well in 4 hours maybe we can have fun spending that LP on another skill only to realize we have to wait another 4 hours for 800 more LP to get another skill.
That four hour time? What are your choices when you will not gain any LP for new skills or skill ups? Building? Well, when you don't have any skills yet you can't build anything. Exploring? Exploring what? When you have no skills you can't FIND anything. Hunting? Again, skills and stats. Role playing? Well if hard roleplay is your thing, you could probably just PM somebody on the forum and have just as much fun.
In reality, that 4 hours until you finish studying is spent AFK or logged off, that is how it ended for the group of people that I played with in world 7, until eventually we just got tired of waiting hours before getting any LP.
And somehow a lot of villages and player groups (including mine) already have idol and metal in 2-3 days from world start. Lp from discovered basic things without any curiosities is enough to get needed skills to forage, hunt, go fishing, build houses, lay stone. This is more than enough to keep you entertained for days and even weeks, if you're playing casually. Paving your base takes hours and can take even days, if your village is any big. You need to constantly fight with starvation at the first stage. The only way to do nothing is, well, to do nothing. This is simply not true, that you can't do anything, unlike in Salem, in which you're indeed screwed without skills.
Have I explained my point well enough for you to understand now, Grapefruit? Because you never seem to understand anything, since English isn't your first language you have an excuse but this is as plain as possible.
I'm saying you're wrong not because I don't understand your point, but because your point is based on lack of experience and game comprehension and you seems to be not really good at logic. It's time to use your "learn2accept critique" advise yourself.
"lack of experience" "Just play more first" "You must be a newbie"
No, you are making assumptions that I haven't played the game "enough". I have played plenty, ran a fairly large town, was a clothier, hunter, and leatherworker through all of worlds 2 and 3 and because I chose not to deforest for buckets and gained my LP elsewhere, you are claiming I'm "inexperienced" and so I "Just don't see the problems". As for the study system, I played as much as I could stomach both when it was first added, and in world 7, are you claiming the game has zero fun potential until you're already established to where you no longer scrounge up meager scraps of LP from whatever curiosity you can find that takes two days to study? Because H&H used to be fun from start to finish. Now, the first several days feel pretty much unplayable.
YoukaiMori wrote:Now, the first several days feel pretty much unplayable.
GrapefruitV wrote:lack of experience and game comprehension and you seems to be not really good at logic. It's time to use your "learn2accept critique" advise yourself.
YoukaiMori wrote:"Now the first several days feel unplayable", yes, they do. But what you are trying to imply I said seems to be "I have only played for several days".
doesnt matter how many days you have played. your posts apparently say how familiar you are with the game system.
YoukaiMori wrote:There's been like one half intelligent response in the thread and even that had misinterpretations to suit his needs.
do you ever wonder, maybe, just maybe, if it is your post that isnt intelligent?
Ninijutsu wrote:5. And the time you spend when you have curios is spent doing what you want, like building.
That time I would have spent building + gaining LP from building, you mean? Because I spent a lot of time building and also gained LP while doing it. Why do you act like you couldn't build before or that you didn't get anything out of building? I don't understand this argument at all. Completing a stone mansion gave thousands of LP just from building alone, not even getting all the material.
I don't. You just hear what you want to hear. Of course you benefit from doing things you like to do in the old system, but you can do it currently as well.
YoukaiMori wrote:And oh look! We find a dragonfly, a whopping 800 LP in, oh what's that, 4 hours. Well in 4 hours maybe we can have fun spending that LP on another skill only to realize we have to wait another 4 hours for 800 more LP to get another skill.
There is more in the game than buying skills. What's wrong with you? Of course the game is fucking boring if you just wait around for curiosities to finish, but there's more to do. As soon as you go up the ladder with your linen panties and stupid hat you can occupy yourself for weeks with meaningful tasks without having to stop and wait for LP.
YoukaiMori wrote:So then we all agree, the common argument of "You always mass produced the same thing repeatedly" applies to the current system too, so is NOT an argument against the old system.
Which means arguments against the old system are: "People cut down too many trees"
Right? That's just about the only complaint limited specifically to the old system, then?
Because the complaints on the new system are: Hours of study time before you gain any LP from the items you mass produced. Wasted actions, wasted materials (As they don't turn into any form of LP.) Lower LP gains for larger amount of time spent Nobody plays for long, because they don't need to be online to gain LP You spend most of your time and actions trying to get more curiosities because there is no other way to gain LP until you're finally set up to farm curiosities while offline I could probably think few more, personally, but that's the gist of what everybody outside of the forums thinks are issues.
i don't think you understand the difference between "making a few thousand bread doughs and dropping them on the ground" mass production and curio mass production. or most other aspects of the game. probably because you aren't smart.
Ninijutsu wrote:5. And the time you spend when you have curios is spent doing what you want, like building.
That time I would have spent building + gaining LP from building, you mean? Because I spent a lot of time building and also gained LP while doing it. Why do you act like you couldn't build before or that you didn't get anything out of building? I don't understand this argument at all. Completing a stone mansion gave thousands of LP just from building alone, not even getting all the material.
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