Looms give too many LPs

[theTrav]

We had shit nicked off a claim before we were storing bricks there, black arts aren't that hard to come by.

It was after and they stole metal and metal tools. Nobody is retarded enough to steal an inventory full of bricks. Crap q bricks. Or is someone retarded enough?

Yes, people who want to steal from us are more than retarded enough to decide that it's a good idea to slow down the construction of our wall by dropping all the bricks in the river are you not reading my posts or do you only remember what you're quoting? It's on the same page

I contributed over 1k bricks to the wall

Then you would have known why we had to store them.

1 - I do not agree that we needed to store them,
2 - I do not agree that we needed to store them in construction sites
3 - I do not accept this as a valid argument against decaying construction sites.

My comment had nothing to do with your contribution to our village just with your past experience as a player. You're starting to learn but your past experience colors your perspective on issues as mine does with my perspective.

Brodgar had no large projects that required a lot of resources. The palisades built themselves, as did the mansion and the charter stone. I have been a hermit working on small scale projects for my entire playing career. Before brodgar I was not part of a community that shared resources and did cool stuff...

I'm being sarcastic dude, have you actually seen me in game or in posts before? Do you have ANY basis for your assertion about my experiences other than the fact that I'm not you and therefore haven't done the exact same things you have done?

I don't give a crap how much you contribute as long as you don't consume more than you produce and it's not the case with you. Sure I'd like everyone to contribute more but I know it's not going to happen so don't get all butthurt on me.

Luck had nothing to do with it. It's called a claim. Nor did we store all the bricks first but you would know that if you'd actually helped with the wall wouldn't you?

Emphasis mine, the implication there is fairly clear to me but if you are asserting that I am a net positive producer and that I DO know about how the brick wall project worked and what the impact of construction site decay on that would have been then I won't pursue it further.

Cupboards are indoors only and immobile. I guess random houses placed all over construction sites with the only purpose of temporary storing the materials are not immersion breaking at all. Houses that would most likely have to have to be destroyed right after you finish (if you need the space). And we're getting back to your masochism problem or is it sadism?

Once again you're making retarded assumptions and arguing like a five year old. Why don't you also assume that I would have people solve the problem by only logging in once a year for 5 seconds, it would show the same level of reasoned opposition.




Listen Avu, take this one slowly, read it a few times. Sleep on it, it could change your life.

Assume that whoever disagrees with you, is as smart as you.

Start with that as your basic assumption. It may be wrong, but it'll help you out in the way you think of things.

If they're as smart as you, but they disagree on that point, then think of the things that would have to change for you to think what they think on that point.

I know, that's a hard one, but give it a shot. It's called empathy by some people, other people call it "putting yourself in their position" but basically it's being able to see opinions other than your own. If you can't do it then you can't really hold a meaningful conversation with people, nor can you argue in a fashion that will achieve anything other than more raeg.

You would not solve the construction site problem by building a "cupboard house" next to your large project now would you? So what makes you think I would solve the problem that way? What makes you think anyone would? That's a clue that it's not what I'm thinking. Think of something else

[Avu]

Yes, people who want to steal from us are more than retarded enough to decide that it's a good idea to slow down the construction of our wall by dropping all the bricks in the river are you not reading my posts or do you only remember what you're quoting? It's on the same page

Let's not store anything cause there's the off chance someone will come and destroy it. That is your argument here right? Just checking.

1 - I do not agree that we needed to store them,
2 - I do not agree that we needed to store them in construction sites
3 - I do not accept this as a valid argument against decaying construction sites.

1. Then you are the only one in the village.
2. Then you are the only one in the village.
3. I don't see you fighting tooth and nail for those stockpiles but here we are deeming everything should decay (all hail tedium)

Brodgar had no large projects that required a lot of resources. The palisades built themselves, as did the mansion and the charter stone. I have been a hermit working on small scale projects for my entire playing career. Before brodgar I was not part of a community that shared resources and did cool stuff...

I'm being sarcastic dude, have you actually seen me in game or in posts before? Do you have ANY basis for your assertion about my experiences other than the fact that I'm not you and therefore haven't done the exact same things you have done?

Yeah I've seen brodgar it was a joke of a town. No foresight in planning completely abandoned cramped inefficient useless. As for your posts the best I can describe you is a masochist. Most stuff you like increase player tedium or at least I notice all of them because I think gameplay and fun come first realism somewhere far behind.

I DO know about how the brick wall project worked

You clearly don't but whatever.

Once again you're making retarded assumptions and arguing like a five year old. Why don't you also assume that I would have people solve the problem by only logging in once a year for 5 seconds, it would show the same level of reasoned opposition.

Whats the alternative? Because storing them was NECESSARY. Please enlighten me.

Assume that whoever disagrees with you, is as smart as you.

Start with that as your basic assumption. It may be wrong, but it'll help you out in the way you think of things.

Why give the benefit of the doubt? Especially since I am already proven people talk about stuff they don't fully grasp.

It's called empathy by some people, other people call it "putting yourself in their position" but basically it's being able to see opinions other than your own.

Oh I see them and get them it doesn't make them less retarded though. Do you think this empathy thingie works the other way around? I mean I doubt an idiot can put himself in a smart person shoes and understand his points. A smart person can do that and then dismiss them though. I know we live in a society were we're encouraged to act like that everyone is a winner and everyone is right but you see reality doesn't really work that way. Some things are stupid and some aren't.

You would not solve the construction site problem by building a "cupboard house" next to your large project now would you? So what makes you think I would solve the problem that way? What makes you think anyone would? That's a clue that it's not what I'm thinking. Think of something else

How about we hear what you were thinking then because that is the only viable option for mass storage if you remove the construction signs. And I don't want to hear what would be viable in 2 years because we still have broken seedbags and inventories full of keys and ...

[Jackard]

boy it sure would be inconvenient to be forced to store wooden blocks and boards and clay and bricks in a cupboard

what do you think guys?? am i just totally off base here???? qtiyd

[theTrav]

Let's not store anything cause there's the off chance someone will come and destroy it. That is your argument here right? Just checking.

You're making another retard assumption. I felt that attempting to save less than 300 bricks by not building an extra corner post was a poor reason to risk many times that number of bricks.

1. Then you are the only one in the village.

That may be true, I'm OK with that, have you done what you demanded to accept my assertion? Have you taken a poll?

3. I don't see you fighting tooth and nail for those stockpiles but here we are deeming everything should decay (all hail tedium)

The stockpile threads I was involved in didn't have substantial argument against them. They also didn't have someone attacking me personally in them.

Yeah I've seen brodgar it was a joke of a town. No foresight in planning completely abandoned cramped inefficient useless.

Given that the aesthetics of the town have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I have been involved in large resource construction projects I can only assume that this is another standard Avu move "I don't understand what is being said so I'm going to pick an insult and hammer away at them with it". It lowers my opinion of you when you resort to such tactics.

As for your posts the best I can describe you is a masochist. Most stuff you like increase player tedium or at least I notice all of them because I think gameplay and fun come first realism somewhere far behind.

I can only assume you have not spent any time thinking about anything I've written and are yet again looking for an insult rather than meaningful content.
I'd also like to point out the inherent contradiction in your assertion that I'm lazy and have not done large pieces of work in the game, and your assertion that I like to punish myself by doing large amount of tedious work.

I DO know about how the brick wall project worked

You clearly don't but whatever.

Still insulting, you're snipping part of my paragraph out of context and ignoring any hint of a retraction of your previous OBJECTIVELY WRONG statements.
But clearly, as I only produced a thousand or so bricks and because i only put them in the storage containers, and because i only walked around the half built perimiter a couple of times and because I only constructed one or two segments myself I have zero understanding of how the project worked. I conversed with warri and birg about it as I was contributing, but obviously I mentally blocked out everything they said and have no knowledge in that area at all.

Whats the alternative? Because storing them was NECESSARY. Please enlighten me.

In game alternatives are sub optimal and involve moving the bricks to cupboards in the mine, you would not like this.
Further more I predict you will react to that by raeging out about how stupid an idea that is as opposed to using the brick to build the wall.

An alternative that involves the dev's doing stuff is implementing stockpile constructions and a reasonable decay of those stock piles. I'd imagine bricks would store in a stock pile quite comfortably for more than the 3-6 days we needed to store them for.

Assume that whoever disagrees with you, is as smart as you.
Start with that as your basic assumption. It may be wrong, but it'll help you out in the way you think of things.

Why give the benefit of the doubt? Especially since I am[sic] already proven people talk about stuff they don't fully grasp.

like I said, spend some more time thinking about it, you're not helping them, you're helping yourself, because if you understand them, you will be smarter and they will possibly agree with what you say. You'd be less angry if people agreed with you right?

It's called empathy by some people, other people call it "putting yourself in their position" but basically it's being able to see opinions other than your own.

Oh I see them and get them it doesn't make them less retarded though.

You do not see them. You think you do, but when you try to commit those opinions to type, what comes out is not something those people recognize.
It is statistically unlikely that 99% of people you encounter are mentally deficient, yet you seem to believe they are. I suggest that the problem is not with them.

Do you think this empathy thingie works the other way around?

That's a far more complicated question than you'd think. First of all, yes absolutely Empathy works both ways. In responding to your posts I have to think "wow, this guy is totally raging out, he think's I'm total shit and my ideas are all terrible and going to ruin his game and also that I am a retard" So then I have to think about why you would think that. That bit is really hard and I'm not entirely sure I can explain the process I use but mostly I'm going by your recent digs you've had at me in skype and in game chat, and also your post history of aggressively attacking people who don't agree with you.
My assumption is that you are relatively intelligent as you've worked out how to play the game quite well, however you clearly (to me) have difficulty in processing points of view from external sources, which is what leads me to believe you simply lack empathy and do TRULY believe that I want to ruin your game and enjoy making the game un-fun for myself.

I mean I doubt an idiot can put himself in a smart person shoes and understand his points.

I think an idiot would struggle to do that, but I don't think you're an idiot, just offensive.

A smart person can do that and then dismiss them though. I know we live in a society were we're encouraged to act like that everyone is a winner and everyone is right but you see reality doesn't really work that way. Some things are stupid and some aren't.

People can be objectively wrong. I do not challenge that. I have been objectively wrong myself in the past.
Idiots are at a disadvantage when compared to non-idiots in almost every single field. I do not challenge that.
I don't think I'm an idiot, and I don't think you're an idiot. I do however think you lack empathy and you would be better off if you had some, as would everyone who encounters you.

How about we hear what you were thinking then because that is the only viable option for mass storage if you remove the construction signs. And I don't want to hear what would be viable in 2 years because we still have broken seedbags and inventories full of keys and ...

Once again, you are ignoring what I'm saying and trying to construct a scenario where I am supposed to defend a stupid idea that I did not propose. I have not at any point prior to this post given my opinion on the order in which things should be developed, the time which it would take to develop things, or even a solution to the problem which you are so aggressively presenting.
All I have stated, is that having construction signs cluttering up the map which will never be removed without player intervention is a flaw that should be corrected using the decay mechanism that is consistent with the world that has been developed.

That does not mean do it now, that does not mean ensure people can't play the game in the way they want to play it, that does not mean hey dev's go and kick Avu in the mouth and call him a bitch.

You brought up another problem, that is currently being worked around. Do you really think the workaround is the best way to solve that problem? I don't.
You believe the 'lack of a real stockpile' problem is more severe than the 'construction signs are never removed' problem. That's subjective, we disagree. Nothing I can say is going to change your mind on that, and I don't feel that there's anything you can say that will change mine.

The only reason we are still posting at each other is because you seem to feel that because we disagree you must insult me until I stop posting.

Having said that I suppose I don't have any reason to keep posting, so I'm just going to put you on /ignore and let you have the last word on how you win because I'm being childish and ignoring you, well at least other people won't have click through our rants anymore.

[Sarge]

Four fucking pages of high maintenance & tedium suggestions to address an issue that will disappear when LP goes out the window anyway?

Christ you fuckers are retarded.

I heard that from when I started and it seemed to have been a point of discussion since well before then, but still, even after a fresh start, we still have LP... months later... so is it really that unreasonable to think that we may have LP for months to come still, if not always and therefore maybe this debate is not so retarded?

[Potjeh]

You can only fit eight planks in a cupboard. If you're growing trees and don't have points in carpentry (because you're focusing on farming alone), you'll need a carpenter friend to drop by and saw those logs for you. Having him come over every day to saw a couple of logs is tedious for both parties. Having him come by once a week and saw a bunch of logs at once is much more convenient, but you'd need half a dozen mansions worth of cupboards to store that without construction site storage. Sure, you *can* build those, but can you imagine how mind-numbingly tedious it'd be to store/retrieve the planks?


Oh, and what about large projects? Say, you're building a mansion, where the hell do you keep all the materials you're gathering? Can't do it in the construction site, because it'll decay (even materials built in, as you're suggesting).

[theTrav]

You can only fit eight planks in a cupboard.

cupboards are 8x8, boards are 1x4. Doesn't that mean you can store 16 planks in a cupboard?

Oh, and what about large projects? Say, you're building a mansion, where the hell do you keep all the materials you're gathering? Can't do it in the construction site, because it'll decay (even materials built in, as you're suggesting).

That would probably depend on what you assume is an appropriate decay speed for materials in a mansion... I would have hoped Loftar put is reasonably high so that even if it took you a month, you'd hopefully suffer little to no decay.

Regardless, as I've said before, I'm not against the idea of stockpiles, for goods that it is reasonable to stock pile (pile o meat should probably decay quicker than stack of boards) I'm against the idea of people using construction sites as stockpiles purely to get around the need for thinking about storage.

[Jackard]

Regardless, as I've said before, I'm not against the idea of stockpiles, for goods that it is reasonable to stock pile (pile o meat should probably decay quicker than stack of boards) I'm against the idea of people using construction sites as stockpiles purely to get around the need for thinking about storage.

That you personally feel using buildsites as stockpiles is 'cheating the system' doesn't mean it really is a problem.

Also having decay for the eventual real stockpiles would be horrible and defeating.

[theTrav]

That you personally feel using buildsites as stockpiles is 'cheating the system' doesn't mean it really is a problem.

Absolutely, if you'll remember way back like, a day ago, I wasn't picking that out as a problem.

In fact YOU were the one who identified the problem, which is construction sites in the wild which are never intended to be finished and typically hold a bunch of branches / blocks never ever decaying.

[Jackard]

thats in the wild, as in, not the ones on my fucking claim