No more PK'ing and trust groups

[sabinati]

Death is not the boon you make it out to be.

counterpoint: Einherjeraspekt

[Jackard]

Attackers have the advantage, yes. Primarily locatively and temporally so. No contest there, and that should be addressed. I think the battering ram was a (baby) step in the right direction.

Remove combat skill values. Attackers already hold the advantage due to timing, preparation, training, and equipment - they hardly need invincibility on top of all that.

[jorb]

The Einherjeraspekt is constantly overvalued. It rocks the socks, yes, but.

1) Even if you do have some kick ass ancestors, you have still died once, most likely at full change, and that means that you, base line, have been weakened.
2) Have you tried getting 40 Numen points? It is not entirely trivial. Especially not so if your base has just been raided, and your production capacity hurt.
3) If you were to die again, your good ancestor will be pushed into the forgetful mists, and you will be at a loss.

You have 400 everything, I have 400 everything. I die at full change. With Einherjeraspekt I now have 500 everything, while you have 400. I am now, at a massive cost, slightly stronger than you for a fixed period of time. Since I got killed, I lost gear, time, and (not entirely unlikely) my base. You and one of you buddies can easily kill me.

It is not half as imbalanced as you think it is.

[jorb]

Case in point: I don't remember the Wayneville kids being overjoyed when Onionfighter killed them on the last map. The einherjeraspekt is a lot of work.

[Fomar]

This is what bothers me, not that pvp exists, but that there is no way for a noob to defend, and then he gets permadead off the first encounter, with pretty draconian penalties for death.
Okay, so I die the first time because I cannot dress my wounds, I take the learning point penalty and start a new character. I spend days working my points back up, learning the game system and along comes an ass who obviously knows I have no armour or way to defend and knocks me out, he then continues and perma kills me, so I'm back to half lp, and probably will not try again. I know it sounds like sour grapes, but the state of the game is just not good for these stiff penalties, and now that this dude knows where I have my stuff, he will obviously keep hitting until I can no longer stand it, so I think i am done .

[jorb]

Remember that the ancestors, bless them, are fickle beings. What are you going to do when the RNG, at 39 NP, passes you battleaxe of the twelfth bay, midnight blue cheese and a pearl? You are going to bless them, that is what you are going to do.

[Avu]

Yes the ram is a a good step.

Nobody likes dying but only one type of characters benefit from it those that only invest in combat stats. THAT is unfair. Tradition change makes the penalty for dying minimal and the bonus more than worth it in some cases. If you never heard of people suiciding at full tradition (or tempting death reaaaaly reaaaaly hard) then it's ok you're a noob that hasn't played much of the end game that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Sometimes this tempting death shit turns into continuous grieffing without much reason other than to troll others into attempted retribution and a kind of assisted suicide.

Remember that the ancestors, bless them, are fickle beings. What are you going to do when the RNG, at 39 NP, passes you battleaxe of the twelfth bay, midnight blue cheese and a pearl? You are going to bless them, that is what you are going to do.

I'm going to laugh my ass off buy a pearl or feed them one of my tons of midnights.

[jorb]

Now *that* I can agree with. There should be some gains to be had from ancestral worship for non combat chars as well. I fully agree.

[Prism]

so tell me about the pvp you've seen or experienced firsthand

Harassing other forum members Sabs?

Haha thanks but I'm a big boy =)

PvP is by no means perfect. I am well aware of the conditions some 'griefed' people live under, but... jesus christ... how long do you think you would have lasted in migrations period Europe as an independent farmer?

It is too hard to defend yourself. Claims do too little as it is. But regardless of what specific mechanic we put in place to allow for better defenses, I am not completely going to undercut the freedom of action that fundamentally is what makes this a fun game. I think it would be downright unreasonable if a town full of high level players couldn't indiscriminately raid and kill newbs who live on their own.

Ah I mostly feel that it's a little bewildering that a game that operates on permadeath has a PvP system that uses the same attribute-skill base as death-irrelevant mmos, and that those skills stretch on to infitity, and also draw from the same experience pool as the crafting skills. It's a bad situation. Having people who exclusively gaurd villages and actually be able to do this would be nice. Specialization is cool, benefits for living in a village from other people doing things you can't is cool. I don't know, hirds already exist, maybe there could be hird magics.

my point was that there is a lot of drama on the forum about people getting killed and what-not, but it's really not that common in the game. and being killed or raided shouldn't be a game ender. you (the generic, figurative "you") had fun and learned a lot in the time you played. do you quit when you lose other games? hell, there are so many people here from dwarf fortress i'm surprised we don't see threads like "I Died And It Was Awesome".

Hell what sucks so much about being killed in hearth is that it isn't common and it's so mundane. If the hits came every week and not months apart, it wouldn't be so bad. If you died after holding off a seige for two hours, that could be fun. But dying quickly and starting so far back really strips away the insulation and these gears grind.

lol that was more than one new post, forums software

[Jackard]

hey hey everyone remember this post? it still holds true

- permadeath
- slow, uncapped character development
- PvP
Pick just two, loftar ;)