Coinperss and economics.

[Zirikana]

Some of us (myself included) may be looking at the in-game coin issue all backwards. We first think "in-game money would be fun!", and then attempt a-posteriori to rationalize our way into a good system to implement coins, which is where things seem to go off the rails.

Putting it another way, as long as currency remains unnecessary, it will remain unused, regardless of how "coins" are implemented.

Again, I try to think of a definition for a currency (by no means official, and i'm intentionally ignoring fiat currencies):
1) Fungible: not a problem, since basically every object in the game is inherently so
2) Rare: Plenty of rare items and resources exist in the game to choose from (metals, high q water and soil, etc)
3) Durable: (duh)
4) Portable: (duh again)
5) Valuation not based on inherent utility: . . .

. . . Here is the rub. In real-life economies, most cultures went to a currency system based on precious metals (gold, silver). Inherently, those metals are useless for most people as anything but a status symbol and a pretty decoration. They merely have "value" for most cultures as a medium of exchange, because they share properties 1-4 i listed above. We don't really have any object in the game that could serve that function, because EVERY object has at least some kind of utility qua object, and so it will be subsumed into the general barter system at some point. Unless some equilibrium point is found at which the amount of the currency-commodity re-absorbed is balanced out by the demand for currency use (and hence its rate of production), then that currency will eventually disappear.

The stamping idea koya came up with seems like it could get around this issue, but only if you are not allowed to destroy or otherwise use the base metal of the stamped coins without incurring some sort of penalty (a loss of metal quantity? A criminal scent attached to the new object? who knows...), effectively putting a limit on the rate of currency loss.

I'll try to think about this more... you guys seem more economically savvy than I am, but hopefully this post serves to focus the debate a little.

cheers

[hfacktor]

There isn't much luster for coins in this place is because the demand for the usage of actual coins is limited beside being converted back to its base metal and the bars themselves have much more usage the coins.

Coins (gold or any generic currency) are more of use in other MMOs is because the system has a lot of "vendors"' so to speak in forms of NPC shopkeepers that can pretty much procure the merchandise out of thin air. In addition many great items are of great usage requires coins to purchase (or is dropped as a rare) and many players will custom sell these rares for more coins. With the typical MMO system , coins have a lot more usage.

Haven and Hearth is entirely different as everything is run by players, the economy, the goods, the merchants, the needs and wants. The merchandise is only in limited supplies for the most part especially with the 3rd world having limited resource node that only procures materials at a set rate. In additional, the merchants have actual needs and will not buy your vendor trash like NPC merchants unless it is of use for them. Also coinage is yet another extra step that is currently not necessary and bares little benefits. Let's say an MMO gold farmer decides to set shop here and started strip-mining a gold mine. It would actually be a bit wasteful for them to be going "Buy 1M gold coin for $99" as it is easier for them to just sell the nuggets for money or even the gold goods if their bot their skills high enough (which is the smarter option). Now if a group of superpowers were to be arsed enough to start coinage for their specialized goods (ex. AD's silvers, Sodom's armor, Buyan's sheeps), then it is a possibility for coinage to work especially if there is an agreed system of exchange as they can fill in the void of the missing NPC shopkeeper system. However....

There are several limitations that actually discourages coinage. For one, the material for coin press itself is a bit of a hindrance, the cast and wrought isn't a big problem but steel tends to be a bit discouraging and a limitation for beginners and a nuisance for veterans and this is just he smallest problem. The bigger problem is the limitation of coins carrying. For one, you can only stack up to 100 coins, a bar worth. Why not just carry the bar itself? The biggest problem is that merging coins of different quality will not average the coins qualities but lower it down to the lowest quality. Averaging the quality can be undesirable itself due to losing a high quality bar for crafting but to completely fuck up the whole stack (it will happen due to human error) is rather discouraging at the least.

Anyways this is my humble input on the coin and economy system.

Thank you for actually assessing the situation in regards to how it would work within the contained system of H&H and not with trying to shoehorn in a system that mimics historical usage.

I swear some people are more interested in making this a 100% accurate historic simulator and not simply a game with enjoyable mechanics. I don't give a shit what the ancient Romans did with their currency, the fact is that in H&H they are neither necessary nor in any way productive.

[Jackard]

i dont really care about coins that much i think they would be fine as-is if they were easier to carry than the material they were made of. and jorb already did the art for a money pouch, so all you need is to make it equipable, maybe on the belt slot or something

also i only skimmed the first few pages of this thread, theres probably nothing important in it anyways

[notalbanian]

i dont really care about coins that much i think they would be fine as-is if they were easier to carry than the material they were made of. and jorb already did the art for a money pouch, so all you need is to make it equipable, maybe on the belt slot or something

also i only skimmed the first few pages of this thread, theres probably nothing important in it anyways

Utility belt for seedbags, keyrings, waterflasks/skins, and coinbags, maybe?

[Jackard]

fwiw thats been suggested several times

[Monkeytofu]

I was going to make a thread about unique coinpresses, but found that it was already suggested in this thread.

I'd like to add my support to that idea.

+1