Since when do the devs do resurections on request?

[sabinati]

the IPs only prove part of it, that he was killed by gato. there is other proof for the rest of it.

[Potjeh]

Gato says he killed him rather than drowned him, so it should be easy enough to prove with scents, I don't see how IPs bring anything new to the case.

Anyway, WoW was a bad analogy, OK. I'm having trouble coming up with a better one. Maybe if your roommate took naked pics of your gf from your cell and published them on a porn site, and she left you over it?

The bottomline is that every single case of dev intervention thus far has been due to the game's inadequacies. Intervening over player inadequacies is a dangerous precedent that completely goes against the spirit of the game as it was up till now.

[DatOneGuy]

1)Gato has interest in lying that he stole Rage's account. Why? Personal reasons.
2)This isn't a glitch it's a security problem, not the game's security problem. Rage's security problem. Gato didn't 'hack his email' as I'm sure you guys very well overplayed to make it seem as if it were as you said that "Gato exploited that 'Password resets never expire' and used and 'forwarded' the email to a throwaway account."
3)Gato has personal reasons to want to have Rage stay.
a]Let your sister leave and live with this guy, while she's pregnant. (Yeah, sure, that's a great idea)
b]Lie and let the stupid bum get his account back so that instead of disappearing for 2 days like he did and ending up drunk in a sewer or in the papers for jumping off a 6 story building and only being mildly injured, the child is actually safe.
4)Gato has access to Rage's account directly via PC, what reason would he have for such convoluted means?
5)Personal security stupidity is going to be rewarded now? Yeah sorry but that's ridiculous, no this isn't a 'GM' problem because this isn't a 'Game' problem, it's a personal security problem, to a personal problem. There's obvious tension between the two if it came to this, and this security 'problem' is more provable because anyone could have hopped on that computer, so likewise I guess I'll just force my 6yo brother to play this game so that one day if I die I'll say that he stole my computer and went killing people. All I'd have to do is have him confess after all.

These are all problems that have to deal with personal bullshit. They in no way are related to the game.

I've never said that loftar is foolish in decisions at all, and I'm not implying that. However I am stating that he was lied to, and furthermore you sabinati, and Spiff both know this. The proof is all over IRC chatlogs, and I made a big stink so no, now none of you can deny what happened or what was said, there were more than enough people there to prove me right.


This is an extremely slippery slope, whether it's called a one-time thing or not it's ridiculous. Not from the point of "I'm not a goon and I hate goons so I want them to die blabhablahblah" because that's stupid. This is a bad thing from the point of view that if I can 'prove' external means which the game cannot track I can easily lie about what happened, Gato could have just as easily taken the character and made a false raid on Sodom as a 'concealed suicide'. Then what?
There's no real safety or meaning in killing someone at all if there is always the chance of some bullshit ace in the hole "AHA! IVE BEEN REVIVED".

For the record, no this didn't affect me Rage, in fact I have more of a stake in you being alive, but bullshit is bullshit and you know it.

Out of game problems, out of game solutions.

[Potjeh]

Yeah, it's not so much a problem with him being alive, as it a problem with the rest of us having to start over when we die. If this was Random McNoob rather than a high end jeweller, an important character owned by a well-known player, would he be rezzed? I think not.

I was kinda pissed when Jorb removed that cliff in Sodom, so it's understandable I'm pissed now. Favouritism is a cancer upon the game's community.

[Spiff]

1)Gato has interest in lying that he stole Rage's account. Why? Personal reasons.

Oh. Well of course. How could I be so dense.

2)This isn't a glitch it's a security problem, not the game's security problem. Rage's security problem. Gato didn't 'hack his email' as I'm sure you guys very well overplayed to make it seem as if it were as you said that "Gato exploited that 'Password resets never expire' and used and 'forwarded' the email to a throwaway account."

Explaining the problem as I saw it. Taking control of someone's account without their knowledge is patently uncool. Do you disagree?

3)Gato has personal reasons to want to have Rage stay.
a]Let your sister leave and live with this guy, while she's pregnant. (Yeah, sure, that's a great idea)
b]Lie and let the stupid bum get his account back so that instead of disappearing for 2 days like he did and ending up drunk in a sewer or in the papers for jumping off a 6 story building and only being mildly injured, the child is actually safe.

What?

4)Gato has access to Rage's account directly via PC, what reason would he have for such convoluted means?

Rage's computer is passworded.

5)Personal security stupidity is going to be rewarded now? Yeah sorry but that's ridiculous, no this isn't a 'GM' problem because this isn't a 'Game' problem, it's a personal security problem, to a personal problem. There's obvious tension between the two if it came to this, and this security 'problem' is more provable because anyone could have hopped on that computer, so likewise I guess I'll just force my 6yo brother to play this game so that one day if I die I'll say that he stole my computer and went killing people. All I'd have to do is have him confess after all.

What? You need to chill. Are you really condoning somebody stealing somebody else's account? I would give you the same advice that I gave Potjeh about clients, but I know you're already careful about that. But is everybody so careful? Don't get pissy because J&L decided to take pity on a stupid occurrence.

These are all problems that have to deal with personal bullshit. They in no way are related to the game.

I've never said that loftar is foolish in decisions at all, and I'm not implying that. However I am stating that he was lied to, and furthermore you sabinati, and Spiff both know this. The proof is all over IRC chatlogs, and I made a big stink so no, now none of you can deny what happened or what was said, there were more than enough people there to prove me right.

I don't follow #haven, so if you feel like it, feel free to let me in on how I *know* that he's been lied to. Because really, I'm interested.

This is an extremely slippery slope, whether it's called a one-time thing or not it's ridiculous. Not from the point of "I'm not a goon and I hate goons so I want them to die blabhablahblah" because that's stupid. This is a bad thing from the point of view that if I can 'prove' external means which the game cannot track I can easily lie about what happened, Gato could have just as easily taken the character and made a false raid on Sodom as a 'concealed suicide'. Then what?
There's no real safety or meaning in killing someone at all if there is always the chance of some bullshit ace in the hole "AHA! IVE BEEN REVIVED".

For the record, no this didn't affect me Rage, in fact I have more of a stake in you being alive, but bullshit is bullshit and you know it.

Out of game problems, out of game solutions.

What? So basically what I hear you saying is "so I know that Gato killed Rage and that none of this hypothetical stuff happened, but I'm still going to bring it up and whine about it." You seem to be saying that J&L are unable to look at a situation and make a proper decision. If you have some *facts* to bring up, feel free. Because honestly, I really don't have a problem with you and I really don't appreciate being accused of lying, especially when you don't tell me on the grounds of what.

[ciroth]

Simple answer to all this.

this is Loftar and Jorb's game, don't like what they do you can always leave. They decide what is within the limit of tolerance and what is out of bounds.

I see this as a case of Identity theft, which is serious, too. You think you are the only one who knows what your social security or other personal information is? You are wrong, your parents know. But do they go out of their way to fuck you over or sell your personal information to give you a life time of fighting identity stealers? No (Unless you got some rotten parents). Just because they have the info doesn't mean they should. In this case someone committed identity fraud in H&H from RL.

There is no separation between RL and virtual life, only the lack of laws and regulations on the internet. After all we all living in RL but playing in a lawless and highly unregulated internet. If there was real life laws that made it easier to keep track of everyone and punishment (jail time or fines) for such actions and enforceable, then there wouldn't be these problems. But then there would be no anonymity and the internet would never be the internet again. So unless someone can offer a legit way to solve this in "RL" other than saying "Go solve it in RL" then i call shenanigans.

There is no precedent really set, J&L deals everything on a per basis case it seems. If people wanted more proof why don't we all use clients that can read MAC addresses so loftar has a log of each computer's unique ID. That would require a worm usually in the client and i know most people here wouldn't want to play a game that keeps track of your MAC and god knows what other information... right =P

and TBH... even im surprised that J&L did revive a player... but what can you do... go and try to raid loftar or jorb's little compound? =P

[Potjeh]

For the record, if my account was stolen via a custom client I wouldn't expect the devs to do anything. Using custom clients is a risk you take willingly, and if it turns out bad you only have yourself to blame. The only hacking that calls for dev intervention would be if the server itself got hacked.

[Jackard]

Since my previous "subtle" thread got moved to hell by the goon moderator who pretended ignorance regarding the topic I will come out and do it the obvious way this time. So again since when did the devs start doing char resurrections? Known bugs like wall jumping never got anyone resurrected before and arguably those should merit revival why start making an exception now for Rage.

Feel free to continue not shitposting, less of your threads will be moved to Hel.

[kLauE]

Yeah, it's not so much a problem with him being alive, as it a problem with the rest of us having to start over when we die. If this was Random McNoob rather than a high end jeweller, an important character owned by a well-known player, would he be rezzed? I think not.

i killed some noobs last map and they were rezzed too.

[Sotsa]

For the record, if my account was stolen via a custom client I wouldn't expect the devs to do anything. Using custom clients is a risk you take willingly, and if it turns out bad you only have yourself to blame. The only hacking that calls for dev intervention would be if the server itself got hacked.

And it is you who decide what calls for dev intervention? Seems like you have a problem with the way L&J deal with things and should take it up with them.

Edit: whoa this thread is aflame, and you're all a bunch of fags.