Scant regard for stats

[Danno]

This game is so noob friendly it blew my mind. q1 linen and bricks are some of the most sought after items in the game. Almost everything is based on sqrt() and the cost for advancement increments so "catching up" is virtually assured over time. I honestly can't think of any other MMO that is this awesome for new players in respect to fair playing field.

Can a veteran player come up and slay a noob with relative ease? Yeah they can. But it doesn't take an infinite grind to change that. The only real unfriendly mechanic is the resource system that allows people to monopolize mines and other goodies via alts, but even that is under the devs scrutiny.

That is true; the game doesn't really distinguish between new and old in that regard, but that's only the economy. With a little effort/casual grind, a new character can have the best equipment in the game. Combat is an entirely different story, though. 500+ hours of casual playing is a true statistic from my gameplay, and I need even more than that before I can compete in battle (unless having a friendly duel between two fresh alts).
The square root thing slows powerful players down, but it still takes a pretty ridiculous amount of time to get up to that general league. What would you consider a reasonable amount of time spent playing (outside of a wheat field) before being able to compete with a veteran?

1. they are working on, and have been working on, a new LP system, the goal of which is to make the game less grindy or whatever.
2. you're seriously overestimating the amount of investment necessary to have a good character. your problem, it would seem, is that you're not very good at investing.
3. your lack of understanding is only matched by your lack of brevity.

1. Well, sorry for being in the dark. Sounds good (?), but I can only really comment on the current system.
2. If it's so doable, make a fresh alt without any aid and raise him into a combat worthy soldier within a reasonable amount of time without spending all your time grinding? If excessive grinding is necessary, that's a problem in itself. But you say it should be less grindy in the future, so I guess you can skip that and say "have faith", but it doesn't really convince me much.
3. It's hard to be brief when attempting to explain things to someone with opposite views or when responding to multiple people in one post.

[DatOneGuy]

2. People do it often, a few of us have done it and made quite good characters a few times now so that we could 'play with friends', it's fun and easy, you get a little better at 'starting new' every time.

[sabinati]

1. they are working on, and have been working on, a new LP system, the goal of which is to make the game less grindy or whatever.
2. you're seriously overestimating the amount of investment necessary to have a good character. your problem, it would seem, is that you're not very good at investing.
3. your lack of understanding is only matched by your lack of brevity.

Please.
Please, for the sake of God, stop mentioning that new delicious system while not telling what it is like; it`s like offering a cake and then taking it away.

i only know about what they tried and scrapped. i don't know what's coming.

[Danno]

Well, then I guess I just suck at the game (in regards to increasing stats) or overestimate my enemies greatly. I'll probably try to interact with players peacefully for my multiplayer experience since PvP seems to be out of the question for me (both in character ability and mentally). I meant no one any grief and hope there aren't any hard feelings or whatever. I would still like if players were (more often) used as a variable for difficulty or that there would generally be a more fun direction late in the game (without having to get too creative).

[sabinati]

2. If it's so doable, make a fresh alt without any aid and raise him into a combat worthy soldier within a reasonable amount of time without spending all your time grinding? If excessive grinding is necessary, that's a problem in itself. But you say it should be less grindy in the future, so I guess you can skip that and say "have faith", but it doesn't really convince me much.

once last map, once this map, got fairly decent on the test server as well, probably would have hit 100 ua if it had been up for another week.

i mean 100 in a skill is only 500k LP. you should have at least 2 or 3 skills at 100 or more by 500 hours of played time. if not, then what are you doing?

edit:

I would still like if players were (more often) used as a variable for difficulty or that there would generally be a more fun direction late in the game (without having to get too creative).

i think we all want this, btw

[Phizuol]

Economy is advancement though. Think not just combat gear but buying better supplies and equipment for more FEPs and more LP since higher quality ingredients often reward more LP when you craft with them. Stuff like linen and bricks rocket a new player from the stone age and now you're dealing with a lot of the same gear that vets worked so hard to create. That's another aspect that favors the newbie, because you don't have to wait months and months for q100+ seeds and livestock like many vets did. Take a look at burg, who died recently, but is now back in some ways more powerful than before - all because of economy. This is where this game has a huge advantage over a lot of MMOs that use level restricted items, and in many cases level restricted EVERYTHING, to cornhole newbies. And in most cases in those games a newbie has no chance of producing anything worthy of trade with a top tier vet unless we're talking about gearing alts.

By rough estimating I would think a person with 20% time invested should become a credible threat to a vet. Two players with 20% time invested each should be an even match to a vet, if not have the advantage. Around 50/60% time invested a player should be able to beat a vet with the right tactics (ie, is a good player, not just a good character.) I don't have the math to back it up but I think in H&H you'd need even less than that to compete, but that's provided you're really playing and not just fappin' on a quern all day. I mean like trading, making allies, and doing something productive.

[Danno]

once last map, once this map, got fairly decent on the test server as well, probably would have hit 100 ua if it had been up for another week.

i mean 100 in a skill is only 500k LP. you should have at least 2 or 3 skills at 100 or more by 500 hours of played time. if not, then what are you doing?

edit:

I would still like if players were (more often) used as a variable for difficulty or that there would generally be a more fun direction late in the game (without having to get too creative).

i think we all want this, btw

Well, if 100 is decent enough to be considered "combat able", I guess that's not so bad. It does take some effort, but it is a fairly reasonable goal even with casual play. The idea of having to attack a single veteran as a savage pack of dogs is a bit of a turn off for me, though. Unless it's as reasonable as Phizuol suggests...

But if there are better ways to keep an infinite game fun than stick caps on everyone and encourage frequent PvP, sure, that's just as good. Some form of equal, skill-based gameplay aspects/minigames would be most ideal (like horseback riding through player-made racetracks assuming the horses aren't solely based on stats).

Economy is advancement though. Think not just combat gear but buying better supplies and equipment for more FEPs and more LP since higher quality ingredients often reward more LP when you craft with them. Stuff like linen and bricks rocket a new player from the stone age and now you're dealing with a lot of the same gear that vets worked so hard to create. That's another aspect that favors the newbie, because you don't have to wait months and months for q100+ seeds and livestock like many vets did. Take a look at burg, who died recently, but is now back in some ways more powerful than before - all because of economy. This is where this game has a huge advantage over a lot of MMOs that use level restricted items, and in many cases level restricted EVERYTHING, to cornhole newbies. And in most cases in those games a newbie has no chance of producing anything worthy of trade with a top tier vet unless we're talking about gearing alts.

By rough estimating I would think a person with 20% time invested should become a credible threat to a vet. Two players with 20% time invested each should be an even match to a vet, if not have the advantage. Around 50/60% time invested a player should be able to beat a vet with the right tactics (ie, is a good player, not just a good character.) I don't have the math to back it up but I think in H&H you'd need even less than that to compete, but that's provided you're really playing and not just fappin' on a quern all day. I mean like trading, making allies, and doing something productive.

Well, the economic aspect is pretty great when you play it up like that. I think I even forgot about annoying things like level restrictions in most other MMOs.

It sounds like I've been overestimating enemies way too much. I guess that's what I get for not hearing second opinions and different perspectives before taking DatOneGuy's numbers like 200-300 [combat skill] and 500+ stat as if that was some set requirement to be able to fight (when he was mostly just saying that wasn't hard to accomplish in his opinion). If it's within this sort of grasp, then I guess it's something I can give a try sometime, and I could simply not finish them off since I'm not interested in DESTROYING the game for them (if, by some chance, I won). As said by others, raising a combat alt would certainly be faster than raising a main character since you don't have to balance stats or whatever.

[Phizuol]

Since just about everything is sqrt() in some form just think about stats and skills roughly like:
10 = 1x
40 = 2x
90 = 3x
160 = 4x
250 = 5x
360 = 6x
490 = 7x

160 isn't too hard to get, and that's over 50% the "ability" you'd get from 490. It's a massive amount cheaper too.

IMO find a vet and spar them. You'll know probably better than most at that point how much a difference stats make. Last time I tried it I got pwned by the Agility changes though, just to warn ya. Heh.

[sabinati]

100 is like entry level, and will at least allow you to kill boars easily, and take on a bear, although it would be challenging, it's doable with good equipment, which will allow you to get more lp and increase that skill as you see fit. dog's numbers are more like the higher end. and you don't have to balance your stats, i mean don't go crazy and push one stat like way more than the others but don't stress it if you're behind on some of them (the important ones i mean). you don't need psy unless you want to make ranger gear/jewelry, don't need dex unless you plan on sewing or making treepots or fishing lures, int and cha are nice for auth gain but not super important (for now anyway, obviously stats can become important, as we've seen with agi in the latest update).

but really if you want to get your character up you need a table with some decent symbel items, some decent hemp buds, and you need to spend some time getting LP and investing it wisely, by which i mean spending it on things that will help you get more LP easier, whether that's a combat skill for hunting, or farming skill and/or cooking skill for making food (and not throwaway bread, either, make stuff and eat it for the double bonus of stat gain and skill gain. you said something about having so much food your village couldn't eat it all, that's silly, seriously get a table and feast).

[DatOneGuy]

If you have 500 UA/Melee you're a pretty capable warrior, and by that I mean anyone but the big factions won't give you much resistance unless they're really savvy.