Developer Thoughts on PvP

[Tonkyhonk]

Play himself, or play BY himself? There's a difference. If he didn't want a playerbase I'm curious as to why he bothered making it an MMO. Also, they were unspecific because it was originally just a streaming thought process. Food for thought. Not necessarily "HERE ARE POINTS HERE ARE CHANGES WE MUST COMMIT TO THEM".

he said they made this game for himself to play and enjoy. as for why they bothered to make this an MMO, i can only guess and i can never speak for them. but my understanding is, they need "meat" for their game play and they are very interested in politics, ideology, human behaviours and such. check what they said on viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7251 if you havent.

Wrong way around. I recognize Village vs Village Warfare. The game doesn't. The server just sees people committing actions and leaving scents. It was still a needless aside, by the way, but the point is that it was an example of something that existed in the metagame, but not as an actual mechanic.

there are some bloody rough bits that I believe are rough without them being rough by necessity (and sometimes, things are rough simply because they have to be).

i never understand the metagame stuff, but why does the game have to recognize one? to have some built-in systems for warfares? if so, then the game does not offer "free" influences by the free will of each players interactions as they advertise in http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/about

Potjeh started it.

he started it so you did worse? sounds like kids talk.
so you actually admit that you step down to the "below" level to talk shit back, which you previously said you were incapable of. (though i didnt think pot's first reply was so much of offense. ppl get madder when the truth is told.)

I believe my second post tried to reiterate, but beyond that, his interpretations were so far off what I actually said I figured the best thing to do would basically be to tell him to go back and read it again, because he clearly didn't do a very good job the first time.

sorry, you didnt. at least my fabulous english skill (lmao) couldnt handle it.
i could only read it the same way as potjeh did.
after all, you actually failed to make yourself understood to the public even if that was the readers fault.

It's not a sense of pride. Well, okay, it is, but it's more disgust at incompetence. I'm more disgusted by their incompetence because I've been in a similar position myself.

dont you ever hit on an idea that it may not be recognized as incompetence but maybe its just how devs want, when they dont take away the mod status from the current mods you think incompetent? you seem to be really blinded by greenies if you cant see that, which many others fail to see. youre not that special in that sense.

Brevity is not my forte.

help yourself.
even with a simplest sentence like that you have to decorate and i had to look in a dictionary lol

Okay, now this is actually quite interesting. If he had no intention of babysitting the forums, I wonder if he meant personally or generally. If he meant generally, I wonder why he bothered giving people moderator privileges at all. Further more, if he did want freedom of speech to apply to all moderators.. Okay, that's particularly interesting, in part because it's a bit dicey. It's one thing to say that moderators can engage in free discussion, but allowing them to slag off other users is pretty dicey for reasons I've indicated before.

moderator privileges...there you go again.
freedom of speech is not only for moderators, to all those who come to this forum.
they all slag off others when ppl start talking shit. and moderators have the right to do so as well.

I can't learn from him unless he's smarter than me (or at least more knowledgable, which he most certainly would be given his experience).

dont make me laugh, anyone can learn from anyone, smart or dumb.
maybe the real uneducated need to learn from the smarter to make the process easier and avoid wrong info or misunderstanding.
if you think you can only learn from the smarter, then im sorry, you can never have a real discussion.

but that aside, i know you didnt mean to offend jorb by that line.
it just spoke the truth of who you think you are in general.

[Pictor]

why does the game have to recognize one? to have some built-in systems for warfares?

It doesn't have to, but it can be useful to deal with certain cases because sometimes general cases can't work very cleanly. Free will doesn't exclude special handling of specific cases.

so you actually admit that you step down to the "below" level to talk shit back, which you previously said you were incapable of.

I'm not sure I said I was incapable of it. When I speak of how moderators shouldn't be assholes, I don't mean "anybody who's ever been a moderator", I mean "people in positions of power have certain responsibilities".

you actually failed to make yourself understood to the public even if that was the readers fault.

Of course he didn't actually say "I don't understand". If he had, I would have gone "oh, I'd better rephrase myself". Instead, he just slagged me off.

it may not be recognized as incompetence but maybe its just how devs want

If the devs truly want the current moderators (as opposed to simply being kind of indifferent to if they're good or bad) then I'm honestly not sure what they want. But I still think letting moderators behave in a certain way is a Bad Thing.

even with a simplest sentence like that you have to decorate and i had to look in a dictionary lol

The irony there is that sentence was as short and concise as I could have made it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier to read. Sometimes, ideas are complex not because I like dressing them up with words, but because they really are complex ideas. That applies to life in general.

moderator privileges...there you go again.

Bad communication on my part; I don't mean "the moderators are privileged to have free speech"; "Moderator privilages" is a term which means "the ability to ban/warn people". If you are a moderator, you have "Moderator privileges". Those moderator privileges are the ability to warn people and ban people. They are called privileges because the average user does not have access to them.

dont make me laugh, anyone can learn from anyone, smart or dumb.
maybe the real uneducated need to learn from the smarter to make the process easier and avoid wrong info or misunderstanding.
if you think you can only learn from the smarter, then im sorry, you can never have a real discussion.

Again, I communicate badly. Forgive me.

There are some things that I can learn from anybody; About life, and such. But I believe MMO design is much more academic, like a science almost. Not entirely, of course, but mostly. A person who has never even heard of an MMO may be able to teach me general stuff about life, and I may be able to apply that knowledge to MMOs in some way, but that person could not teach me much about MMOs directly. How could they? When I say I could learn a lot from Jorb, I mean specifically about MMOs. I've already learned much from your posts, for example, but that doesn't mean I'd trust you to lecture me on MMOs, heheh.

[Jackard]

My impending ban at this point is irrelevant. I will point out one thing before I'm given the heave ho; You have a rule against Mod Sass. Hahahaha, holy fucking shit, this would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. You have a rule which says, in effect, "Be nice to us or we'll ban you". Here's a clue, children; If you can't take abuse, you shouldn't be moderators. If people don't feel comfortable calling you on your bullshit, you breed a community of people who agree with you. If you breed a community of people who agree with you, you end up never actually getting any useful feedback, because nobody's going to stand up and say, hey, dude, you're full of shit. And you may be full of shit. But you'd never know, because as any 9th grader will tell you, admitting that you might be wrong, even to yourself, is a sign of weakness. This may be my last post here, but fuck me, it was worth it to get that off my chest. Come at me, motherfuckers.

"mod sass" refers to people bitching at moderation, not disagreement with the moderators

ps. devs dictate responsibilities of moderators, not you

[Pictor]

"mod sass" refers to people bitching at moderation, not disagreement with the moderators

Aside from being borderline semantics, I'm not sure that contests anything I said. I wasn't suggesting that you ban people for disagreeing with your taste of underwear.

ps. devs dictate responsibilities of moderators, not you

I never implied I dictated the responsibilities of the moderation, I just called you all incompetent moderators. I suppose it's possible you're incompetent by dev design as opposed to attitude problems, but in my experience, if the moderators are twats, it's usually because the moderators are twats, not because the administration imposed twatness upon the moderators.

[Avu]

Look noob jorb is as much of a troll as anyone here. The sooner you get that the sooner you stop with your stupid assumptions.

[sabinati]

I'm going to make a bold statement and say KISS doesn't apply here

KISS applies to everything, including forum posts. stop wasting your reader's time.

We are here to clean up your garbage.

You misunderstand your own role as a moderator.

what then, is my role, other than moving misplaced threads, and removing garbage posts and posters? am i to be a paragon of virtue and flowery language like yourself? perhaps i should wax philosophic for hundreds of words per post? but why bother, when these joe averages wouldn't understand anyway?

[Jackard]

I never implied I dictated the responsibilities of the moderation, I just called you all incompetent moderators. I suppose it's possible you're incompetent by dev design as opposed to attitude problems, but in my experience, if the moderators are twats, it's usually because the moderators are twats, not because the administration imposed twatness upon the moderators.

recent joinee rails at system and generally makes a fool of himself, news at 11

[jorb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woySeSNBL3o

[Kearn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woySeSNBL3o

sigh

[Tonkyhonk]

Avu has hit the nail on the head, not to mention jorb proving it himself.
my reply would be superfluous, but hell, ill post anyways cause i talk too much.

it can be useful to deal with certain cases because sometimes general cases can't work very cleanly. Free will doesn't exclude special handling of specific cases.

that is what the scents are for, i believe. if you feel the need for more, be precise and suggest one in C&I.

The irony there is that sentence was as short and concise as I could have made it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier to read. Sometimes, ideas are complex not because I like dressing them up with words, but because they really are complex ideas. That applies to life in general.

moderator privileges...there you go again.

Bad communication on my part; I don't mean "the moderators are privileged to have free speech"; "Moderator privilages" is a term which means "the ability to ban/warn people". If you are a moderator, you have "Moderator privileges". Those moderator privileges are the ability to warn people and ban people. They are called privileges because the average user does not have access to them.

do you see your own inconsistency? (it was rather bad communication on my part.)
what i meant by that line is that you picked the word, "privileges", instead of "ability" in order to express your own complex idea. i know many forums and forum mods call that "privileges" while i would never take it as any kind of privleges, rather a burden. why would i want to have access to them?
mods here are to help J&L, their friends, not to police around, and i havent seen them call that a privilege yet.
your choise of words really speaks by itself who you are if you actually dress up on purpose as you claim.

ever heard of Hemingway's quotation, "Prose is architecture, not interior decoration, and the Baroque is over"?

But I believe MMO design is much more academic, like a science almost. Not entirely, of course, but mostly. A person who has never even heard of an MMO may be able to teach me general stuff about life, and I may be able to apply that knowledge to MMOs in some way, but that person could not teach me much about MMOs directly. How could they?

that sounds like the very reason why many MMOs or arrogant developers out there fail so hard, as you ironically mentioned "I don't have a hell of a lot of faith in most MMO developers".

*edit*
sorry about that, Jackard. ill shut up now.