Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby AnnaC » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:26 am

I've been thinking for awhile that the Build > Stoneworking menu doesn't get enough love.

Recently I've noticed a new resource griefer came through. Ok whatever it happens; but it made me think about boulders in-game as a resource, and their output. I think you shouldn't make Runestones and Querns straight from the natural boulders, but have to quarry a "cellar stone" liftable boulder first.

Quarry Stone action
Basically instead of using the Runestone and Quern build action on a natural boulder, have them only work on those cellar stones. To make them accessible before hard metal/cellars, allow them to be quarried from natural boulders individually (similar to building a cellar). Perhaps a boulder will hold 4 of these stones, or maybe 9 (since boulders are basically 3x3 tiles large). Once the cellar stones have been quarried then the boulder disappears like normal.

This will help slow down resource griefers, plus make runestones less wasteful of a communication method, and give pre-metal hearthlings access to cellar stones, which are useful for traps and pens and other things. :)


Runestone replies/editing/clearing
It would be nice if you can add new tags to Runestones that were already placed; perhaps a reply, or an addendum, or information update. This should of course require time and energy; perhaps you can drop a dream on a written Runestone and then the next view/activation of the Runestone is a message box to add a reply. Or a new chemical mixture of rustroot, sand, and a dream in a clay jar to make a stone-scrubbing solvent or something, to erase a troll rune. These aren't that well thought out I'll admit and can be used to grief legitimate runestones, but just some general concepts to do more with the Runestones in-game.


Storage structures, religious sites
Another thing I've been thinking about is outdoor storage structures; I know there's several threads of this sort of thing, some I've gotten ideas from. I was thinking of making two seperate threads to put these in, but since they will be stone related I figured to post them in this thread.

Stone Cairn
I really don't see why nomadic Hearthlings can not build stone cairns anyway; they were often used in the wilderness for emergency supplies, or hunting equipment, and other uses. A static 1 tile sized structure that takes 30-50 stones to build, and maybe Bone Glue and/or a piece of Dried Hide, and acts as a storage container (maybe 5x5 or 6x6). Resistant to decay, but can be destroyed -- maybe similar to a Hearthfire or a little weaker. I think this would be useful, as you could do things like have hidden treasure; or just leave maps of the local area in them, or a cache of bricks out along your farther walls. ;)

There are plenty of other variations, make them work like lean-tos or a combination storage like a wagon; but I think a small simple one would be the best. But thinking about this, I thought about a storage plot for another particular item: corpses! So that got me thinking about the under-use of stone in the Hearthland's religious aspects!

Burial Cairn
Pretty self explanatory. Stones, soil, dreams, builds a 1 tile sized container structure that only accepts hearthling skeletons (a single skeleton). Optional features would be if a hearthling right clicks they read the inscription of the hearthling that rests there. Or perhaps an inscription like a runestone where the grave builder writes an inscription. You could also add this to the Ancestor Worship system, and make it so gravesites act as shrines with a numen bonus; or maybe a special bonus for a direct ancestor's burial site. Sort of like alternate shrines.

Burial Mound
This would be similar to a grave, except it would be a larger structure (like 3x3 tiles) with more container slots. Perhaps it can be a combination container like the Wagon, and have slots to store skeletons, and a spot to store random items. These could signify someone's possessions, or treasure; you can make it like a tomb for a lost Chieftain or anything like that. Perhaps make it so it's open with 6 slots for skeletons, and when the last one is full, or a cellar stone is dropped in, the mound becomes sealed and the only interaction would be reading the inscription. I'm not experienced with the mechanics of crime, but having grave robbing in those places an option I suppose as well.

With both the grave and larger burial mound, I think that any demolition or vandalism should leave vandalism scents regardless of ownership (as they belong to the venerable ancestors now). 8-)

Stone Shrine
Basically a static shrine made of stone, dreams, and bones, which gives a minor numen bonus compared to the standard shrine. However if burial sites were made to act as specialized shrines, then this structure would be redundant.


That's it for now, and covers my main ideas, although others I have which have been discussed enough are things like grain silos, garden walls, and stone cottages; so I won't go into them in this thread.

Thanks for reading! :D
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby Melgui » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:32 am

I like it. Stoneworking needs more presence.
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby SacreDoom » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:50 pm

Cool idea, makes me wanna kill a man and put his skeleton in a grave and dumb a rock on him :3
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby Talvara » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:23 pm

I'm not to sure about the runestone reply thing, I'd think that could possibly open up a new way of griefing.

you know... phallic expressions on my nice and orderly "welcome to my home" runestone. Perhaps something like a bullitin board could be made.

Bullitin board
displays a list of messages, using parchment players can add their own message to the list. (actually now that I think about it a chest with parchments inside already kinda does this...) a bullitin board would still be kind of cool if it had grafics for 'contains unread message for you' and if it would work on village grounds even to people who arent part to that village.


I really like your idea of adding 'wildernis storage options' maybe it could work something along the lines of.. you built a container into an already existing rock/tree/stump and only you as its constructor will see it as you pass by it. Other players are oblivious to the storage space, they only find out when they try to interact with the already existing object that the storage is built into.

kind of like an extra option besides "collect branch" once you find such a wildernis storage you can for always see it as if you had contructed it.

(for some reason that makes me think of morrowind :P where that woodelf in the starting town hides his healing ring)
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby AnnaC » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:28 pm

About the reply being used to grief, nothing stops anyone from murdering a nearby boulder, writing "DONGS" or something on it, and plopping it on your doorstep anyway (well short of a secured house of course!). But yeah there should be a way to seal a runestone against replies if you carve it, like dropping a couple dreams on it.

Bulletin board, well it's not stone working, and it's been in plenty of other threads, so I'll add no more comment about it.

That's a good idea about building containers inside stumps and natural boulders. Also you could do this with runestones, couldn't you? How many places do you know a rock that has messages on it from over the years? Why not just be able to mark one of those boulders and move along instead of carving out a portable specialized inscription stone?
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby loftar » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:31 pm

I do certainly agree that stoneworking needs a bit of love, and quarrying cellar stones out of boulders is probably a good idea. Cairns for storage could be a good idea as well; I have been wanting some kind of fixed-position container for some time anyway. What I would like to do with stoneworking mainly, though, is to add various kinds of stones (which are collected in different ways, such as feldspar currently is) with different usage, as we have done with clay. The main problem is to think of the actual uses. :)

As for burial, we've long wanted to have it. The problem is really just what kind of advantage would actually be derived from burying one's ancestors.
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby DeadlyPencil » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:44 pm

loftar wrote:I do certainly agree that stoneworking needs a bit of love, and quarrying cellar stones out of boulders is probably a good idea. Cairns for storage could be a good idea as well; I have been wanting some kind of fixed-position container for some time anyway. What I would like to do with stoneworking mainly, though, is to add various kinds of stones (which are collected in different ways, such as feldspar currently is) with different usage, as we have done with clay. The main problem is to think of the actual uses. :)

As for burial, we've long wanted to have it. The problem is really just what kind of advantage would actually be derived from burying one's ancestors.


well make the bodies worth exp, and make the body usefull the the killer as well so that they want to keep the body, and you want to retrieve it. maybe villages could use bodies on stakes instead of statues. the aomount of exp the dead body contains would affect the area covered. so a newbie would be like 1 square, where some dead 10 million exp guy would cover a very large area.
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby aso11 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:34 am

DeadlyPencil wrote:
loftar wrote:I do certainly agree that stoneworking needs a bit of love, and quarrying cellar stones out of boulders is probably a good idea. Cairns for storage could be a good idea as well; I have been wanting some kind of fixed-position container for some time anyway. What I would like to do with stoneworking mainly, though, is to add various kinds of stones (which are collected in different ways, such as feldspar currently is) with different usage, as we have done with clay. The main problem is to think of the actual uses. :)

As for burial, we've long wanted to have it. The problem is really just what kind of advantage would actually be derived from burying one's ancestors.


well make the bodies worth exp, and make the body usefull the the killer as well so that they want to keep the body, and you want to retrieve it. maybe villages could use bodies on stakes instead of statues. the aomount of exp the dead body contains would affect the area covered. so a newbie would be like 1 square, where some dead 10 million exp guy would cover a very large area.

Would make for some very interesting village claims. You made me smile.
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby Melgui » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:18 am

loftar wrote: The main problem is to think of the actual uses. :)


Obsidian: jelwery, medium tier sharp tools (nice properties but breakables) and ceremonial tools (exploitable with burial, the symbel and sacrifices).
Marble: high tier construction material (statues and stuff).
Slate: roofs of new buildings.
Gypsum: low/medium tier construction material (needs to be processed).
Jet: jelwery.
These are just a few ideas, add many types of stone would turn this into DF.


loftar wrote:As for burial, we've long wanted to have it. The problem is really just what kind of advantage would actually be derived from burying one's ancestors.


deadlypencil wrote:maybe villages could use bodies on stakes instead of statues
This, and also usage of the town "heroes", burying them in lavish mausoleums (made of marble yeah) providing the same bonus.
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Re: Stone Working (quarries, storage, religious sites)

Postby AnnaC » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:59 am

loftar wrote:I do certainly agree that stoneworking needs a bit of love, and quarrying cellar stones out of boulders is probably a good idea. Cairns for storage could be a good idea as well; I have been wanting some kind of fixed-position container for some time anyway. What I would like to do with stoneworking mainly, though, is to add various kinds of stones (which are collected in different ways, such as feldspar currently is) with different usage, as we have done with clay. The main problem is to think of the actual uses. :)

Thank you for the response. I like the idea somewhat, but I wonder about uses too. I don't see all the clay types really being used that much. I've had the same 6 Feldspar in my cupboards for 2 months now with nothing to do with them (Cave clay is hard to acquire for a naturist and I havent gone spleunking on my industry alt unless its to our copper mine). But really unless porcelain gets some new items to be used for, I don't see the different clays being really necessary (short of Acre and Ball).

Perhaps tool stone (flint/obsidian types), and construction stone (marble, granite, etc), would be a couple decent stone distinctions, without specializing them to the point of uselessness.

As for burial, we've long wanted to have it. The problem is really just what kind of advantage would actually be derived from burying one's ancestors.

Well, if you don't like my suggestion about them acting as buffed shrines, then why do they need a gameplay advantage at all? Perhaps players are invested enough in their hearthlings that they'd want proper burials for them anyway? People use hearthling corpses for a variety of things anyway, even if they don't have an advantage; it's decor. I mainly suggested burials because you can mark a place, and have some formal place to put skeletons if you aren't that macabre to leave them out as warning or decor.
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