Next genteration Walls and Houses

[Whitehead1771]

Ok to start, How many people at some point say to them selves "Time to build another stone mansion." for what ever reason.

How many people would like something epic that entire village must work at to achieve?

My idea should fit in nicely in world 4 and before you flame me for suggesting stone walls read carefully.

Next Gen Wall: Stone Curtain walls
Starter Tower: 500 stone , 20 Wrought Iron , 50 Mortar* , 100 Boards
Extra Towers : 250 stone , 10 Wrought Iron , 25 Mortar* , 50 Boards
Walls sections : 100 Stone , 200 Soil , 1 Wrought Iron , 5 Mortar*
Gate : 1000 stone , 10 Steel , 50 Mortar* , 200 boards

* Mortar would be new item made from 1 feldspar and 4 bone ash boiled in cauldron, once made must be used in 1 hr or is hardened, and once added to sign post is permanent.

Size of these constructions would be 3x3 tiles
(personally i would love to see the towers be 5x5 but that would leave gaps if you didn't plan your wall VERY carefully)
And the soak i would set to 120. ( 4 players with about 700 str and a ram to get in)
Hit points:10,000

Next Gen. Home: The Keep or Manor House

The Keep : I havn't worked out the proportions of stuff but to build it should take Stone , Boards , Blocks , Glass (got to have windows) , Metal ,Chains** ( to hang chandeliers) Mortar , Linen , Bricks

** new item or just factor it in as the metal bars
Inside would have an entry hall about the size of ground floor mansion , a stair case leading to second floor , and 2 doors to seperate rooms.
Second floor would be a hallway and 4 doors to 4 rooms about the size of log cabins
and of course you could still dig a cellar ( or Dungeon (could put those chains to use)) which might take like 100 boulders being removed....?

On a side note: it would be cool if there were different sprites for better Q construction make it a point of pride to have the best looking Keep. on the super grid.
Any way that is my Idea for some epic sized construction that would take the efforts of many to make...or at least some very determined individuals.

[AnnaC]

The only idea I really like is the mortar, as it gives Feldspar and Bone Ash more use. The rest I dislike because of aesthetic and gameplay reasons.

Gameplay reasons I dislike it, is because this game doesn't really handle sieges well. And it really can't because the player population will never be high enough to have large protracted battles; so sieges will always wind up being resolved through subterfuge (alts, backstabbing, etc.), bug exploits, or simply just being more active in-game than the opposing party.

Aesthetic reasons I don't like them, because every other game is GENERIC MEDIEVAL. This is a more pagan classical era game, and although it has modern aspects and non-period things added for fashion, aesthetics, and other things, I believe Haven & Hearth would suffer if it leans more toward high medieval period styles and atmosphere.

[loftar]

I agree that the siege mechanics right now suck and that new walls seem a bit superfluous before that has been fixed somehow.

However, I've never really viewed Haven as necessarily barbaric in setting. Right now, that's a consequence of the general tech level of Hearthlings, but I wouldn't mind letting the Hearthlings evolve to more advanced technology. Among the things I wouldn't mind letting them develop are gunpowder, guns and ballistas (among other things). I think such would require at least a revamp of the crafting and/or building system, however; to account for the greater difficulty in manufacturing such things. I don't think adding such things would necessarily have to imply going "canonically medieval" in other aspects.

Walls with towers as cornerposts is actually one of those things I've considered explicitly. In my imagination, each wall segment would be 3x3 tiles. A tower could be used as an observation tower, meaning it could be entered by a player, who could then "click around" a larger piece of the surrounding area and look at it. Given such things as ballistas, it should also be possible to load a ballista into such a tower in order to use it at a distance.

Also, given stone walls, the normal boulders should be limited in the amount of stones that can be extracted from them.

[DDDsDD999]

Awesome sauce

I don't really see how guns would need a revamp of the entire system, it could just be like ranger bows in some aspects, and just left click, right click gun powder into gun, but Ballistas I understand.

[sabinati]

Also, given stone walls, the normal boulders should be limited in the amount of stones that can be extracted from them.

stone walls should require the liftable boulders (from cellars, and in the future, from breaking the large boulders into some amount of liftable boulders, or from quarries, or some such future system) instead of stone chips imo

[SpidersEverywhere]

Best way to avoid that generic fantasy look is to go with real Viking style architecture - cool boat-shaped houses:



Massive walls like the Danevirke:



And this bad boy (ok, it's a church, but it still looks badass):

[notalbanian]

I agree that the siege mechanics right now suck and that new walls seem a bit superfluous before that has been fixed somehow.

However, I've never really viewed Haven as necessarily barbaric in setting. Right now, that's a consequence of the general tech level of Hearthlings, but I wouldn't mind letting the Hearthlings evolve to more advanced technology. Among the things I wouldn't mind letting them develop are gunpowder, guns and ballistas (among other things). I think such would require at least a revamp of the crafting and/or building system, however; to account for the greater difficulty in manufacturing such things. I don't think adding such things would necessarily have to imply going "canonically medieval" in other aspects.

What about adding a "discoveries" system? For stuff like gunpowder, strong walls, etc. instead of buying a skill you'd need to discover it. There would be some element of randomness and a good amount of effort required. For instance, each part you add to a battering ram would give a base 0.1% chance to discover ballistas. Higher Intelligence and/or Psyche would increase the chance, as would a high Industry or Civilization belief slider. Watching someone else build the ram or push it would also give a chance. If the RNG is feeling nice today, you discover ballistas, allowing you to build them, but not anyone else. Other people can independently discover ballistas by doing the same thing. You could also teach someone else how to build ballistas (allowing people to share the knowledge with their village and/or trade it away), using the building materials, a significant amount of LP from them, and possibly some special items. Assuming you have the skill for building battering rams, you could also study them, which would take some time and special items and only have maybe a 5% base chance of success, and could only be tried once per real-life day. If you manage to capture a ballista from an enemy, you could reverse-engineer it, requiring the same amount of LP as being taught it.

Thoughts on this? this is probably the crappiest idea ever made, flame away

[DatOneGuy]

I agree that the siege mechanics right now suck and that new walls seem a bit superfluous before that has been fixed somehow.

However, I've never really viewed Haven as necessarily barbaric in setting. Right now, that's a consequence of the general tech level of Hearthlings, but I wouldn't mind letting the Hearthlings evolve to more advanced technology. Among the things I wouldn't mind letting them develop are gunpowder, guns and ballistas (among other things). I think such would require at least a revamp of the crafting and/or building system, however; to account for the greater difficulty in manufacturing such things. I don't think adding such things would necessarily have to imply going "canonically medieval" in other aspects.

Walls with towers as cornerposts is actually one of those things I've considered explicitly. In my imagination, each wall segment would be 3x3 tiles. A tower could be used as an observation tower, meaning it could be entered by a player, who could then "click around" a larger piece of the surrounding area and look at it. Given such things as ballistas, it should also be possible to load a ballista into such a tower in order to use it at a distance.

Also, given stone walls, the normal boulders should be limited in the amount of stones that can be extracted from them.

I'd like this, but only if it was something that took a while to build up to, being able to rush early game and get there in a week shouldn't be very doable, it should take some time and especially effort in order to get to the point where you can use gunpowder effectively, it should also be a decent process along the way, and not just a 'go find X' 'Use X to make some Y', ' Keep using Y to make Gunpowder for guns', you should have to repeat the whole thing somewhere, would be all nice.

[loftar]

As for a new crafting system, I only have very loose thoughts. I imagine that, when crafting something a bit more advanced, such as a stone axe, bucket or, in the extreme end of the scale, a sword (but not when crafting really simple things), one would get an incomplete crafting project as an inventory item (kind of like a signpost for building projects, that is).

Such a crafting item would have certain variables that would need to be satisfied in order for it to become completed, and to satisfy such conditions (or at least bring them closer to satisfaction), one would be able to apply certain effects onto the crafting item. If one compares such a crafting system to a fighting system, it would be kind of like using attacks to bring the opponent's defense to zero, and then bring his HP to zero, with some other effects and variables playing into it. I haven't really been able to think of any such effects or variables, however.

It could potentially be fun, though. I imagine one could insert some other actions into the system -- for example, given a gemstone or something, one could craft it into an unfinished sword and perhaps gain some extra benefit on that sword; or one could fail some operation and have the sword drop in quality, which could be "repaired" by using extra raw materials or somesuch; or, perhaps, crafting one's name into the sword as some kind of "proof of ownership (or origin, at least)". One could imagine quite a number of interesting such effects.

It would also make some things more meaningful -- right now, it isn't very meaningful to implement different kinds of steel swords, since one can make any one of them as long as one has steel, and it isn't really reasonable for the great sword of Loftarian fury to require 50 bars of steel or something like that. If they were vastly differing in their difficulty of crafting, however, that would make such variation much more meaningful.

That is also how I imagine such things as guns to become truly rare. If they require different mechanical parts that are so difficult to craft that only highly organized villages can do it (that is, have any practical chance of actually doing it), then they would become truly extraordinary.

[notalbanian]

What about adding more sword attacks, like stabbing, chopping, thrusting, and a parrying maneuver, that different types of swords are better at and damage enemies differently?