New Idea for Mineing and Smithing System

[Fenrispantom]

Mining and Smithing cloud use a major overhaul and hopefully will in World 4 while none of these changes can happen in world three i'm putting them down now before world 4 comes around

Mining:
As to how mining is now all one simple has to do is simple the following

Prospect for the mine hopeing to get lucky
Or
Find a abandon one
Not only is this highly unreal but the mines them self's have infinite ore in them so once you have a mine of a certain type you never run out of that type.
and not only that but all ore smelts for the same chance no matter the ore type.

So here is my idea

In W4 mine holes can be dug anywhere but this does not mean you will hit metal. The new system will tie 3 new layers under the ground from the surface in these layer spread most fo the layers will be dirt except for the 3rd layer which is rock withing the dirt there will be small to large pockets of metal ore based on what type of ore and your industrial slider you might get 1-5 ore mattering on the type

Copper:
would give around 1 on full nature 1-3 at the middle and 3-5 at full can be found at all three layers small to medium in the 1st medium amounts in the 2cd and medium amounts in the 3rd

Tin:
Would be slightly less with it at 1, 1-3, 3 amount found is same as copper

Iron:
At full nature would result in no ore at all at mid would result with 1-2 at full 2-4 can be found at 2 but a majority of it should be in layer 3

Gold & Silver:
should only result at full with silver at 1-3 (would mostly hit 1 with a 20%(gold)-40%(silver) chance at hitting more) can only be found in small amounts on the third layer

They should add to the mix are Coal, Sapphires, Emeralds, and Rubies to ad to jewelry making (maybe diamonds)

Now to dig down to the lower layers one must have the right tools

1st layer would only take a stone+ pickaxe to get into
2cd layer would take a copper+ pickaxe to get into
3rd a iron+ pickaxe will be needed

As to finding the metal prospecting will in a way be the same but when it give the percent its the percent of the tiles within the scan radius in the layer below
that hold metal and in what direction they are in (it should say if your right on top of some of the metal so you do not dig down right on top of it).

also i think the type of pickaxe should effect the ql of the ore gotten (this effects smelting which will be explain in a bit)
also should mention that while one can dig down one can not dig up at least unless the devs find a way so it makes it none griefer friendly to bypassing walls
now on to smelting

Smelting:

Frankly i find the currant system of smelting boring

To smelt you put ore in a smelter
Fire said smelter up for the bars
If not iron takes bars and make them into goods
If iron then you might or might not turn into steel
If you do them you trun the iron to bloom
Bloom to wrought
Wrought into steel after feeding a steel crucible wood for 56 hours

So i say do away with the old system for a new one

So first smelting ore into metal this should not resulting "bars" but a unit of processed metal
for every 5 units it makes a bar
(also you should be able to melt down already forged items but at the cost of any other materiel used to make said item)

Now with most tools you should only need 1 or 2 units of metal but for gear,more advance tools, and building objects bars should be needed

Ok so you got the processed metal or bars and you think you can make anything now don't you, sry to say but your far from done yet what you would need now is a mold for the tools or item your making ( you might even need a mold to make bars but that should only be added if molds effect ql)

So this is where the "Forge" comes in basically. It's like a Smelter/Crucible but different in a way. You fuel it with a small amount of coal to heat it up and put the metal your using in and wait till the metal heats up to the right temp and add your mold for the tool/item your making you should then see the mold fill up at which point you begin to hammer away "shaping" the item.

Now based on the type of metal use you can end up with 6 types of tools or gear Copper/Tin, Cast Iron, Bronze, Processed Iron, or Steel each stronger then the last

Now with making weapons or any sharp objects you need a grinding wheel which grinds down the dull edges after its first made or from use over time back to a shape edge for the first grind when makeing them there should be no penalty but to resharpen the tool drops the ql of the item being sharpen
With armor you should be able to repairing it but would have the same result as as grinding down a weapon or sharp tool

NOTE: there should be stone tools (ie: Stone axe, pick, shovel) but no stone weapons (this does not include ammo which can be made of stone)

Here is a list of items you should be able to make (and some you already can but with changes) plus what they do and how metal should effect them

Tools:

Axe: still the same but with metal type handicapping the ql of goods made with it
Sickle: little brother of the scythe not as fast but but still better the harvesting by hand speed effected by metal type
Scythe: pretty much the same as is before but with metal type effecting speed
Pickaxe: same as is metal type will effect speed and how far down one can dig
Shovel: same as is but with metal type effecting speed AND ql of dirt/clay dug can (ie high ql dirt/clay need a shovel to be dug up)

Weapons: each weapon would have its advantages and disadvantages
(i will explain them in a later post on stuff i think they should add to combat as im still working on that one)

Dagger
Shortsword
Longsword
2-hand Sword
Spear
Pike
Small axe/ One-handed axe
Two Handed axe

Shields: (can be made from wood)
Buckler
Round Shield
Square Shield/Tower Shield

Helmets:

Cap: Small tiny cap little protection to your head but hey its better then nothing
Helm: basicly the same look as the iron helm of world 3 gives the average protection
Full Helm: think of a Knights Helm Heavely Protects the user but takes a good deal of metal to make

Armor:

Leather: all around the same as before
Studded Leather: Made by taking a metl unit and making them into studding that you added to leather armor not as good as metal armor its self but still much better then leather
Chain-mail: Step up from both the leather armors provides decant protections and later can be worn as a under shirt for the other armors cost a average amount of bars
Plate-mail: Big step up from chain as chain can be worn under this armor cost a good amount of metal to make (can only be made from Cast+)
Full Plate Armor: Chain can be worn underneath this armor, it provides the best protection but at the cost of a lot of metal can only be made form Processed Iron+)

Leggings:

Leather: same as before
Studded Leather: same as the armor
Chain-mail: same as the armor
Plate-mail:same as armor except chain can not be worn underneath
Full Plate: same as armor except chain can not be worn underneath

That's it for now still working on whether or not steel making should change as to be honest i like the currant system for that

[DatOneGuy]

No thank you.

You're wasting your time anyway, Jorb and loftar already have ideas for the new system, try a search.

[sabinati]

spelling, grammatical, and factual errors aside, it sounds pretty terrible except for gemstones and multiple layers underground which is likely to happen anyway based on the loftorb's posts

[Anomaly]

I'm pretty sure mines don't have an infinite amount of ore, I think DoG said somewhere that he exhausted one side of a mine, that or my memory needs some jogging up.

[sabinati]

yeah that was one of the factual errors

[Anaklumos]

I think this guy has some valid points, but the system of armor doesn't quite fit in with everything, but for the pants section, all I have to say is, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. If the only thing you can equip for pants are leather and ranger's along with nettle pants (but who wears those?).

As for tools, I really like the minecraft-like system for being able to get different types of raw materials from the next up highest material of tool. First stone, then copper/tin, then Cast Iron, then Bronze, Wrought, and then Steel.

As for the random mine holes, I have some suggestions with that so we don't need to eliminate rustroot.

Be able to dig a mine hole every like 50-100 squares or something, and then be able to use rustroot to find the types of metals on each level. It's a rough system and I'm sure Loftorb has a better idea for it.

Finally the use of Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, and Emerald. I will wait a long while for them to actuate this into the game. It'll open up a wider window of jewelry opportunities. Emeralds for a farming speed and skill boost, Rubies for a mining speed and smithing skill boost, Sapphires for a boat speed boost, and Diamonds for something like an all stat and LP boost. Something like that would be cool, and compared to the jewelry we already have for that the boosts will be cut in 1/2 and combined. Like a merchant ring and a ring of brodgar combined and their stat boosts 1/2'ed based on Quality of course.

As for the quality of those precious gems, they would be dependant on the Q of what was used to cut them, and you'd either get small raw diamond, raw diamond, or Large raw diamond, cutting them into small -1 cut diamond, regular-3, and large -5.

Then you can have diamond tools if you have a certain size of raw diamond and you cut it just for that.....

I JUST LOVE THE POSSIBILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway that's my input on this

[DatOneGuy]

As for tools, I really like the minecraft-like system for being able to get different types of raw materials from the next up highest material of tool. First stone, then copper/tin, then Cast Iron, then Bronze, Wrought, and then Steel.


Finally the use of Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, and Emerald. I will wait a long while for them to actuate this into the game. It'll open up a wider window of jewelry opportunities. Emeralds for a farming speed and skill boost, Rubies for a mining speed and smithing skill boost, Sapphires for a boat speed boost, and Diamonds for something like an all stat and LP boost. Something like that would be cool, and compared to the jewelry we already have for that the boosts will be cut in 1/2 and combined. Like a merchant ring and a ring of brodgar combined and their stat boosts 1/2'ed based on Quality of course.

1)Tools need to be more dependent on what you use. An iron pickaxe should be faster than a bronze pickaxe, a steel pickaxe should be the fastest.
2)Not everything should like that exactly, copper should be better for some things than iron, and iron better than copper for others. Anything involving water (Remember the talks of that machine to raise water Q?) should be benefitted greatly by copper as opposed to iron.
3)Would be nice if pickaxe Q did indeed matter to some extent in that you could use it to raise Q by a very slight factor (your ore), not enough to be able to endlessly cascade (well you could theoretically but let's say that if you wanted to get from q100->q150 because q100 was your limit and you wanted to do it just cascading pickaxes, it should take about 2 empty minefuls worth of making pickaxes to do that. Let's say that base ore Q is 10, and it raises by +2% *sqrt(q/10) , a q 10 pickaxe would produce q12 ore, a q90 pickaxe would produce q16 ore. I'd also love to see veins within the mines as quality, but again that's all changing, the whole system, eventually.

All ideas about changing mining/smithing OP had are pretty bad about things like type dependency on sliders. I'm heavily against things like sifting rivers for gold, unless there becomes a very small unit that takes like 10 to make a nugget (100 to make a nugget for gold/silver), it seems, gay.


I'm hoping gems get in, but not like that, not like that at all. Would be nice if gold/silver wasn't so dependent and after the gold beater's skin makes way that would be the base Q of your 'jewelry' and what you put on it (ruby, sapphire, emerald, etc) changes not only what it does but also changes the Q dependent on the Jeweler (HARSH checks, it should be at least 2x as hard to get where we are now with some of this shit we make), there should also be many options for setting jewelry, would be very neat. Tools that limit the quality of course will see their way in, it would be nice if gems are introduced it works similarly.

How gems will be mined is something that I can't wait to see how Jorb/loftar do it, there are many ways and some of their ideas for mines period are things that I just can't wait for it, they're so awesome >_<;

A lot of things now should be changed around though

[Anaklumos]

As for tools, I really like the minecraft-like system for being able to get different types of raw materials from the next up highest material of tool. First stone, then copper/tin, then Cast Iron, then Bronze, Wrought, and then Steel.


Finally the use of Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, and Emerald. I will wait a long while for them to actuate this into the game. It'll open up a wider window of jewelry opportunities. Emeralds for a farming speed and skill boost, Rubies for a mining speed and smithing skill boost, Sapphires for a boat speed boost, and Diamonds for something like an all stat and LP boost. Something like that would be cool, and compared to the jewelry we already have for that the boosts will be cut in 1/2 and combined. Like a merchant ring and a ring of brodgar combined and their stat boosts 1/2'ed based on Quality of course.

1)Tools need to be more dependent on what you use. An iron pickaxe should be faster than a bronze pickaxe, a steel pickaxe should be the fastest.
2)Not everything should like that exactly, copper should be better for some things than iron, and iron better than copper for others. Anything involving water (Remember the talks of that machine to raise water Q?) should be benefitted greatly by copper as opposed to iron.
3)Would be nice if pickaxe Q did indeed matter to some extent in that you could use it to raise Q by a very slight factor (your ore), not enough to be able to endlessly cascade (well you could theoretically but let's say that if you wanted to get from q100->q150 because q100 was your limit and you wanted to do it just cascading pickaxes, it should take about 2 empty minefuls worth of making pickaxes to do that. Let's say that base ore Q is 10, and it raises by +2% *sqrt(q/10) , a q 10 pickaxe would produce q12 ore, a q90 pickaxe would produce q16 ore. I'd also love to see veins within the mines as quality, but again that's all changing, the whole system, eventually.

All ideas about changing mining/smithing OP had are pretty bad about things like type dependency on sliders. I'm heavily against things like sifting rivers for gold, unless there becomes a very small unit that takes like 10 to make a nugget (100 to make a nugget for gold/silver), it seems, gay.


I'm hoping gems get in, but not like that, not like that at all. Would be nice if gold/silver wasn't so dependent and after the gold beater's skin makes way that would be the base Q of your 'jewelry' and what you put on it (ruby, sapphire, emerald, etc) changes not only what it does but also changes the Q dependent on the Jeweler (HARSH checks, it should be at least 2x as hard to get where we are now with some of this shit we make), there should also be many options for setting jewelry, would be very neat. Tools that limit the quality of course will see their way in, it would be nice if gems are introduced it works similarly.

How gems will be mined is something that I can't wait to see how Jorb/loftar do it, there are many ways and some of their ideas for mines period are things that I just can't wait for it, they're so awesome >_<;

A lot of things now should be changed around though

You have some valid points Dat.

If you've ever played minecraft you'd know that the different material up is always like 1.3 times faster than the last material and also wood and stone can be used as materials for tools.

Also, Diamond tools would be.... and check my math but without wood and stone tools, 1.3 from nothing to cast, to bronze, to wrought, to steel, to diamond, so that's 1.3^5=3.71293 so a diamond shovel would be 3.7 times faster than just with hands, and I believe a regular shovel is about 1.5-2.5 times faster, just somewhere in there.

The other direction to go is to do it like that but with Qualities mattering, which I think is actually a more sensical way of doing it. Otherwise a balance of the 2 of them would be ideal.

As in terms for quality raising I think you're really onto something with +2% *sqrt(q/10), maybe a slightly different equation though, also the smelter Q and fuel Q influence, but it would just raise the possible quality, which gives it the ability to constantly increase and we might actually be able to get a cap on iron seeing as nobody really knows what it is as of yet.

[Gauteamus]

A diamond shovel would be the silliest thing - I am sure we'll never get there.
Shovels menacing with spikes of diamond on the other hand...

[DatOneGuy]

The other direction to go is to do it like that but with Qualities mattering, which I think is actually a more sensical way of doing it. Otherwise a balance of the 2 of them would be ideal.

As in terms for quality raising I think you're really onto something with +2% *sqrt(q/10), maybe a slightly different equation though, also the smelter Q and fuel Q influence, but it would just raise the possible quality, which gives it the ability to constantly increase and we might actually be able to get a cap on iron seeing as nobody really knows what it is as of yet.

The quality mattering would be a neat way to go indeed, both could matter might work out nicely.

Yeah it could use some changing I just tossed that out as an idea.

Also I mean that the ore should then be introduced somewhere in the quality, perhaps an average of all three things (making it much harder to raise quality), or it can just influence very little.

Some basic examples:
Assuming Q100 Smelter and Q150 Charcoal throughout

Current system: (Smelter Q + Fuel Q)/2 = q125 Cast

Average system: (Ore Q + Smelter Q + Fuel Q)/3 =
q87 Cast(q12 Ore;q10 Pickaxe) ;
q88 Cast (q14 Ore ;q40 Pickaxe) ;
q88.6 (q16 Ore; q90 Pickaxe)


Weighted Average: ( (Smelter Q + Fuel Q)*2 + Ore Q)/5 =
q102.4 ( q12 Ore;q10 Pickaxe)
q102.8 (q14 Ore;q40 Pickaxe)
q103.2 (q16 Ore;q90 Pickaxe)

Obviously would need some changing probably double or triple that change, or instead of sqrt(q/10) try sqrt(q/5). In any case, just thought it would be interesting, if it's not and it's stupid that's fine too, it was 6AM when I posted