The combat system

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

The combat system

Postby Dataslycer » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:36 am

There of some things in the combat system that needs to be fix, if we're not going to plan a revamp for a while:

Stern Order: The fact that it takes off IP from your party member makes it unfavorable to use in a group fight situation. Even then you would need 1.666 adv (2,78 : 1 ratio) to really remotely content with Invocation of Skuld. A thread was made about it here.

Float like a butterfly: Has the same CD as Dash, gives 7.5% def, gives 0.3% combat advantage, gives the enemy 1 IP. Give IP to the enemy is a really bad idea and the ratio isn't even good either. With 3 butterflies, I gain 0.9% advantage which can simply be undone by 1 Invocation of Skuld. Essentially with 3 moves, I gained only 22.5% def and no IP, making this moves pretty much worthless.

Fan the Flame: Has a very long CD and increases intensity by 5. During this long CD, your enemy gets the benefit of the increased battle speed. Even as a ganking tool it is useless as you can do something far more productive than increase intensity in the duration of the move.

Feign Flight: Has the same CD as 2 charges and give 2 IP. Also requires defense to be lower than 10%. Why not just use two charges instead and not worry about the dangerous condition to use it?

Battle Cry: It's actually fine the incorrect way it is. The description says it removes 50% def of the enemy (which would be a too powerful imo) but it is actually removes you own defense. just change the description the way it is working atm. Bug thread mentions it here.

No Pain No Gain: I feel this moves needs a revamp. Currently it is entirely too risky to lose half your SHP especially with the ranger bow being very viable. However, if the penalty is adjusted even a little to less, it would be too overpowered (it's 2.5 flex + . 0.86 Opportunity knocks after all). Possibly remove 25% of your defense for a much swifter cooldown on the next move. However if this gets changed, I can imagine people complaining about not having a way to reduce your hunger meter (sorry! :oops: ).

Push the Advantage: Gives 1 IP, remove stamina, requires 3+ advantage, has slightly faster CD than Dash but longer than charge. A relatively balanced move if it wasn't for the conditions to use it or the stamina cost. When It think of this move, I would think you should be doing something similar to what boars, deers, aurochsen, and bears do when they have +3 advantage though :P.

Losing all defense when attacked while moving and no move queued: This has to go, or at least have a penalty for the one moving. Getting hit with 0 defense is absolutely devastating in a same tier PvP fight. With a slight misclick, you can end up losing your life especially with a lag induced misclick. Also considering you actually have to move to change targets when fighting multiple foes...

There was a thread that mentioned about some of the moves not being viable in this thread as well
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Re: The combat system

Postby bitza » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:25 am

i have discovered that "throw sand", which reduces enemy's inits by 2, is actually slower than 2 charges.

Dataslycer wrote:Losing all defense when attacked while moving and no move queued: This has to go, or at least have a penalty for the one moving. Getting hit with 0 defense is absolutely devastating in a same tier PvP fight. With a slight misclick, you can end up losing your life especially with a lag induced misclick. Also considering you actually have to move to change targets when fighting multiple foes...


also this, a million fucking times over
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Re: The combat system

Postby niltrias » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:20 pm

Nice analysis. I had intuited quite a few of these, but it is nice to see the math laid out.
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Re: The combat system

Postby Oddity » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:22 am

I agree with all of the abve :) I hope the devs read it
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Re: The combat system

Postby DatOneGuy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:04 pm

It always 'felt' like some of those were useless, but I never did the math. Well, this sucks then. :(
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Re: The combat system

Postby Dataslycer » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:12 pm

Some of the moves seems crap but was actually better than on paper and has its usage. Others like cleave and push the advantage seem to have some good aspect but rather underwhelming.
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Re: The combat system

Postby Dataslycer » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:45 pm

Ok a bit of a bump from me in light of the change on the defense bar reduction formula. It does give a better chance to lower stat players in fighting and the higher stat player can no longer afford being careless. However it also makes it harder for higher tier melee fighters to fight animals (vice versa for lower tier). Range weapon seem to outstrips melee in hunting even more.
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Re: The combat system

Postby DatOneGuy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:03 pm

IIRC that's the way hunting is supposed to be.
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Re: The combat system

Postby burgingham » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:19 pm

DatOneGuy wrote:IIRC that's the way hunting is supposed to be.


True, problem being that mms had probably become too powerful already with high q ranger bows.
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Re: The combat system

Postby DatOneGuy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:32 pm

I don't enjoy the trade off that MM is supposed to be 'good for hunting animals' but 'bad for hunting people', and I don't like this nerf for animals, but it wasn't for animals really as I see it.
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