Lateral movements in defensive options.

[sonerohi]

So, right now there is a clear progression. Palisade beats fence because it has a higher soak and health. Brick beats palisade because it has a higher soak and health. Adding in new wall types does little to shake things up because the new ones will have a clear cut position. My proposal therefore is lateral movement, accomplished in a variety of ways.

First: Trade offs. Higher material cost for a better wall does nothing. Everyone has materials. Instead, make stat trade offs. A wall that soaks well but shatters due to low health. A wall that is easy to damage but endures for ages. Both I find acceptable effort, but will amount to insufficient. Which means method two.

Second: Stat importance. Right now strength is the only stat that matters for wall breaking. Basically, if there were alternative methods to breaking walls that used different stats, and walls had different soaks for each method. A confusing wall that strength does little against but is vulnerable to psy, for example.

There would, obviously, be different ways to accomplish this, but hopefully we would see variety, security, and an end to whining.

[TheDrill]

Yea, psi-defense is crucial against mindworms. How are we ever expected to deal with mindworms without one?

Man, all of the people who are busy grinding STR will be SO MAD.

[sabinati]

i really, really want a confusing wall

[Wolfang]

Just make more different walls with their own stats, for example
-earth wall=>soak but weak and crumbles fast.
-Stone wall=>made up of stones (that u gather from rocks...duh) stays alive very long, but has low soak, which is also true because many of these really old walls with thin stones are still all about the woods nowadays. look more like this:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 80&bih=814

then you have the big ass walls like in castles with big stones which would just be the 4th tier after fence/palli/brick wall.

[Jackard]

i really, really want a confusing wall

can we make the walls from labyrinth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2xVZiGOw-o

[sabinati]

only if i can get some pants like david bowie wears

[sonerohi]

Forgot to put a little notation that option 2 would only really be effective with regional resources. A region poor in strength foods and rich in dexterity foods would see walls focused primarily on dexterity. Fighting the threat thats there and all.

[Darkavatar]

Dex walls?

[Reeyfer]

I would say modify the walls that are already there that way. The palisades should have high soak because the wood is flexible but low health because once you push it far enough to damage it it's going to be wrecked and go down with a couple more good whacks. Brick walls should have about the same soak (because they're way more expensive this would obviously be a detractor) or perhaps even a significantly lower portion since its not really hard to start chipping at brick but should take a ton of damage since the wall's going to keep standing as its many layers of brick not just one of logs. Also obviously add stone walls, taking lots of boulders and being lots stronger than any of them, the lowest soak but the highest health by a long shot (as well as more time intensive, but using a simple material so they're the noob friendly strong wall; there's not a whole heck of a lot of reason to throw steal beams in the middle of a pile of stone unless you've got concrete to bind them).

A lot of the problems will be solved when the world restarts and the characters are hopefully wiped. The top players out there now have used a succession of unforseen (or perhaps underforseen) quick boosting tactics to get where they are, tactics that have been fixed and so won't be around for the new world, or at least won't be as powerful. Still the main problem is that people aren't supposed to take down walls by themselves, they're supposed to use siege engines. Even a palisade should be entirely immune to unarmed or melee - if anything those shouldn't even DO damage to it. It should require a siege engine, and there should be several different types (at least a midrange like a catapault and a long range like a trebuchet, and the battering ram should be fixed to only work on gates or palisades). If this was the case there would be a lot more strategy in defending or attacking a city, meaning a lot more chance for intelligent design to halt attacks and a lot less chance of having your city smashed by some individual who got boosted by his war band or city to insane str so he could punch through walls. Plus how freaking awesome would it be to be able to build a trebuchet? This game already looks like AoE zoomed in too far