Industry Chars Disadvantaged

[kobnach]

Industry characters were disadvantaged in LP even before the hunting change, and now things are worse. I play both an industry and a farming character, and find that the farmer constantly gets more LP. I had been trying to balance this with hunting, and even that was not enough - there were too many tasks involving picking plants to start, which then gave lots of LP at later stages - or simply needed doing, causing me to play the farmer more. I've been consciously leaving tasks half done for the industry alt to complete, and even that hasn't balanced my LP completely. If I were only playing one character - well, metal is vital, but you only need a certain amount - a ratio of one miner per 5 or 6 nature characters is probably about right. And while one can mine for LP, it's not especially efficient - I get much more LP per time spent doing many other things... almost all of which require a nature character at some stage of the work.

And yes, I know nature characters were disadvantaged for quite a while, with metal vital and no correspondingly valuable item for them to trade. I just want to point out that the shoe is now on the other foot.

[VoodooDog]

its okay for me.
both dont have same strong

[Junkfist2]

Yeah ok that's nice VoodooDog.

Another problem with Industry is, first of all, it's continually dependent on Nature for charcoal and tea.

Secondly, what it produces lasts hella longer than and needs less constant production than Nature.

Thirdly, it is incredibly soul crushing. You slave in a dark pit for ages to follow the same production line of cast->wrought->steel, the final step being one that has the by-product of constant "did-I-leave-the-stove-on?" anxiety every morning and evening.

I'm guessing in the future we'll get plenty of weird DFy things to spice it up. Different metals like copper, silver, gold. Coal veins. Gems. A Phosphorescent Fungus. Some Dungeon Crawling elements and weird events. Maybe one day we'll even see mines no longer operate as "pocket universes" and be able to turn it into an underdark.

In the meantime however it's something I continually urge new goons to stay the hell away from. The lp gain from mining isn't really worth it, especially considering the stam drain, and a small number of industry specced miners can supply enough metal for a large population.

[sabinati]

maybe you should do some construction projects with your industry guy

[kobnach]

maybe you should do some construction projects with your industry guy

There aren't that many which can be done without nature help - basically only those involving brick, metal, and stone. Wood is a nature product - and frankly replanting is a PITA unless one is _full_ nature, because of the time trees take to sprout and the ratio of losses. Yes, once a tree is planted, the industry guy can take over. But the nature guy doesn't need him very much

[Junkfist2]

Brick's easier for nature too. More seeds to replant grass with and can plant a tree near the kilns for branches. laffo.

The things nature guys need industry guys for is, off the top of my head, a cauldron, their saw (if they want 2 more boards a log), their pickaxe for stone (if they need a lot of it quickly), some cast for chests (unless they just want baskets), their walls (if they're going brick), their weapons (unless they just want a regular bow), and their armor (if they want more than leather). Out of all that only their armor degrades and needs replacing, and that takes a while.

That's not really what bugs me though, what bugs me is the limited activities of Industry.

[kholhaus]

Well I agree you with some accounts of Industry being disadvantaged. But the truth is, they're both hard to solo in different terms. When you think about it, Nature is more primitive and first stage, for when a settlement is starting out, because at those times you need less of production, and more of starting a stable, efficient town. One that can make it's own food and not have to rely on hunters only. Once the town has filled their breeches to the top with filling foods, then they can start on production of more tools and housing and wood industry, which is where Industry comes in. So Industry isn't disadvantaged unless there's no nature to balance it out.

I think Industry and Nature and a few other things should be more Yin and Yang in terms of their strengths and weaknesses.

[Krantarin]

I think Industry and Nature and a few other things should be more Yin and Yang in terms of their strengths and weaknesses.

Definitely. I'm an industry/hunting guy, and both have gotten pretty boring... I'm just sort of waiting until the map change, and really hoping that I'll have things to make that are in-demand and trade-able.

[zombieexpert]

Or you could go half and half and still do all the tasks you need, with just slightly less efficiency?

[Thursday]

You don't need nature for clay, as paved areas can be redug for clay.

Also, Industry is fine. If anything, I'd say it's better than Nature, because all the things nature gives you can be found growing (save for onions and other "new" crops, though onions don't do anything).

The best of everything is industry. The best walls require Industry, the best armour requires Industry, the best weapons. the best container.

Not to mention some of the things you mentioned as Nature strengths, namely tea and Beer, require Industry for the tools needed to make or drink them.

The biggest thing though is that going full Industry still lets you do all those Nature things as well. You still get one seed when harvesting crops, meaning you can replant. Trees planted may take longer, but they still grow. Even the stuff that has an increased chance to fail when full industry isn't that great a loss. If your saplings die you're out some clay, water and a cone or core.

If you go full Nature, you cannot make cast iron. You can't. The base % for ore turning cast is 10%. Each step toward industry gives an extra 2%. Each step away costs you 2%. You will mine endlessly without getting anywhere, and even if you somehow managed a piece of cast, you'd never be able to make it wrought.

I understand that Nature might seem to have the LP bonus, but that's because all the Nature stuff is perishable. It goes bad or gets used, and then it's gone. Being able to replenish your stock is nice. Being FORCED to is substantially less so.

Finally, Industry products are substantially more valuable. You'll be able trade steel for just about anything you don't feel like making yourself.

Overall, I have to say I don't see where all the disadvantages are. I play mostly balanced, and the most grindtastic thing in this game is mining. Anything that cuts down on that seems is a godsend.