You don't have to learn to get learning points

[Fluffy]

You just have to do the same thing over and over. The LP system is a bit broken as is, or at least it's misnamed and misleading. Jorb & Loftar claim LP is different from "XP" in other MMO/MMORPG's(or at least that's the basis behind Lp), but is it? No, it's the same thing.

Learning Points should be awarded the way you would think they should be.. By Learning. When you do something new, you learn about it. If you do it some more, you may learn more & more about that thing, but after a while, there's nothing new. It's just repetitive and boring. It's just the same as a poorly thought out grinding game, like Runescape. Just stand around and do the same thing over and over so you can buy, earn or improve a skill, so you can stand around and do the same thing over with slightly more reward. It makes for boring gameplay and is 100% pointless. And then, we end up with a 10-year old population running around tearing down trees, or spamming dream-catchers, or whatever today's LP-gaining fad is.

It's just a thought, but a (even slight) re-work of the learning points system would be nice.

Say you decide to make some buckets(Common grinding technique, fucking LP farms, mang). You start off and are doing good. Bucket after Bucket after Bucket gets you hundreds, then thousands, then tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of learning points. It's pretty amazing you can learn so much from making a fucking bucket, huh? Sure, maybe a thousand or ten thousand LP points might be achievable by learning to be a bucket Guru, but after a certain point, there's simply nothing new to learn. So, how it is now, and how it should be, is a little like this:


Mind you this graph is the result of hundreds of well respected Bucket Crafting specialists and graph making experts, with contributions from multiple Ph.D's. It was also drawn by nymphomaniac female ents. respect it.



Obviously there's something wrong with that. It's completely the opposite of what should be happening here. The more buckets you make, the more points you get to dump into crafting and acquiring better tools, the more LP you get from making buckets. What exactly are you learning?

A solution would be to make Learning Points more dynamic. Don't completely nerf every way of gaining LP, then people just macro or get bored and quit playing unless they're die-hard H&H fans, then you end up with an unbalanced "God" and "Noob" only population. So, what I was thinking, was change LP gain to slowly alter the more you repeat a task. These numbers are going to be kept small for explanatory purposes so don't nag me about these unreasonable amounts...

-Let's say you start out making buckets. You start out at 25lp per bucket because you've just learned something new. You're not good at it.
10 buckets later..
-You're better at making buckets, padawan. You're now up to 30lp per bucket. Maybe even bucket quality is naturally increasing.
25 moar buckets later..
-You're a skilled bucketeer. 50lp per bucket is pretty good. You're discovering how to make more efficient and less splintery buckets. Maybe even more bucket quality. Which, I'm fairly sure bucket quality matters, but apply this to something like a loom or a tool and it makes sense.
100 more buckets and some boring grinding time later..
-You're bored out of your mind. There's nothing new happening. You might as well just be wasting time. You've learned nothing, save maybe like a meager 5lp per bucket. You've got good quality buckets, but it's no different than a walk to go get water from a stream anymore.

See what I mean? It makes more sense.

With the vast number of items and tool craftable and buildable, LP gaining ways would, by no means, be scarce. Even if you max your bucket knowledge and run out of quick LP gain from them, there are hundreds of more existing(and soon-to-be implemented) ways of gaining LP. And more complex things, like making metals, building houses, and complex processes would yield much greater LP gain changes, with slower LP loss.

The reason I used buckets for an example is because I'm currently grinding a forest into buckets right now in the background.

Other notes...
Please be civil when making suggestions if you wish to be taken seriously.
Avoid realism-based arguments and needless complexity - simplicity and gameplay will trump realism every time.
Before you post have a quick reread. Is there anything that could be made clearer or less wordy? Have you assumed people know what you mean at any point?

Before somebody responds quoting this saying "realism, do not want", consider the benefits and losses first before a mindless reply.

Realism isn't a bad thing. It makes gameplay more dynamic, less repetitive, and in some ways more entertaining. I think it would be a good addition, the reason I make this suggestion despite his quote is because I'm not going to bother explaining this on the IRC or in another forum and end up making like two or more threads. But I'm not completely asking for realism here, this LP system, in ways, is a bit of a gameplay issue that should be addressed.





tl;dr LP system is pretty broken.

I searched for "Learning Points" in threat titles in the suggestions subforum and got one results about a LP-cap before making this and am pretty sure it hasn't been suggested..

[Jackard]

players that ask for realism dont really want realism, they want simulationism

use your words man

[Zigabogado]

I just finished reading all of this. My brain is now diamonds.
I REAAALLLLYYY like this idea, not because of the realism, or because it would be a good LP fix, but because it would make the game less repetitive. While I was watching this, I was infact, making buckets. The point being, this would make the game much more interesting, and less recurring. +1. Jorb, listen to this man/woman.

[Fluffy]

players that ask for realism dont really want realism, they want simulationism

use your words man

It being based upon a realistic learning system was implying it being turned into a realistic learning simulation.

[Jackard]

i liked the test server better, it had its own learning system (study/curiosities/discoveries) that would replace this type of grind

the problem with making these suggestions when the devs go silent for long periods of time is you have no idea what they've already accomplished

[DDDsDD999]

You just have to do the same thing over and over. The LP system is a bit broken as is, or at least it's misnamed and misleading. Jorb & Loftar claim LP is different from "XP" in other MMO/MMORPG's(or at least that's the basis behind Lp), but is it? No, it's the same thing.

Where did you get this info? Experience and Learning are the same thing.

-Let's say you start out making buckets. You start out at 25lp per bucket because you've just learned something new. You're not good at it.
10 buckets later..
-You're better at making buckets, padawan. You're now up to 30lp per bucket. Maybe even bucket quality is naturally increasing.
25 moar buckets later..
-You're a skilled bucketeer. 50lp per bucket is pretty good. You're discovering how to make more efficient and less splintery buckets. Maybe even more bucket quality. Which, I'm fairly sure bucket quality matters, but apply this to something like a loom or a tool and it makes sense.
100 more buckets and some boring grinding time later..
-You're bored out of your mind. There's nothing new happening. You might as well just be wasting time. You've learned nothing, save maybe like a meager 5lp per bucket. You've got good quality buckets, but it's no different than a walk to go get water from a stream anymore.

Funny thing is. It does this already. Through the crafting, the higher Q you craft something, the more LP You get from the task. You can increase your skill level to lessen the Softcap, or increase the material Q to increase LP Gain. Really, this would just induce more repeative grinding. You get more LP from something, the more you grind it. This would make the difference between "noobs" and "gods" only bigger. The current skill upgrade is like this: First 10 UAC, piss easy. 600, to 610 UAC. Could take days. Yet you want it this way, and are arguing againest it? Your Ideas are still really muddled. I really don't understand how you really mean it. You want LP Gain for Items to increase, but want LP to be slower as you go?

[Kaios]

Personally I think the idea you have here, combined with LP only going in to a respective skill (Make a bucket so points go towards raising carpentry) would make more sense.

With a percentage of that LP you just got, (So say 100 LP goes in to Carpentry, so then you get 10% of that, so 10 LP) going in to a general pool which you can use to raise any skill.

[Fluffy]

You just have to do the same thing over and over. The LP system is a bit broken as is, or at least it's misnamed and misleading. Jorb & Loftar claim LP is different from "XP" in other MMO/MMORPG's(or at least that's the basis behind Lp), but is it? No, it's the same thing.

Where did you get this info? Experience and Learning are the same thing.

I vaguely recall reading that somewhere.. I'm fairly sure it was said somewhere. I may be wrong.

But no, Experience and Learning are not. Learning is the process of gaining Experience. Experience can be infinitely gained from a variety of tasks, but you cannot infinitely learn from the same task. Let alone, infinitely learn MORE from doing the same task.

-Let's say you start out making buckets. You start out at 25lp per bucket because you've just learned something new. You're not good at it.
10 buckets later..
-You're better at making buckets, padawan. You're now up to 30lp per bucket. Maybe even bucket quality is naturally increasing.
25 moar buckets later..
-You're a skilled bucketeer. 50lp per bucket is pretty good. You're discovering how to make more efficient and less splintery buckets. Maybe even more bucket quality. Which, I'm fairly sure bucket quality matters, but apply this to something like a loom or a tool and it makes sense.
100 more buckets and some boring grinding time later..
-You're bored out of your mind. There's nothing new happening. You might as well just be wasting time. You've learned nothing, save maybe like a meager 5lp per bucket. You've got good quality buckets, but it's no different than a walk to go get water from a stream anymore.

Funny thing is. It does this already. Through the crafting, the higher Q you craft something, the more LP You get from the task. You can increase your skill level to lessen the Softcap, or increase the material Q to increase LP Gain. Really, this would just induce more repeative grinding. You get more LP from something, the more you grind it. This would make the difference between "noobs" and "gods" only bigger. The current skill upgrade is like this: First 10 UAC, piss easy. 600, to 610 UAC. Could take days. Yet you want it this way, and are arguing againest it? Your Ideas are still really muddled. I really don't understand how you really mean it. You want LP Gain for Items to increase, but want LP to be slower as you go?

You took what I was saying, and turned it around, and described what I described as being flawed ingame.

The way I explained it was, in constantly being able to lessen the softcap and highten the LP gain infinitely, you're ruining gameplay and turning it into a grindfest. By instead encouraging dynamic LP gain you're putting more variety and inevitably less boring moments of sitting around repeating the same thing over and over.

But the key point in that entire little scenario(which you may have missed) is the VERY final bucketing session described. Notice it went from 50lp a bucket to 5lp a bucket. It didn't go up, it ended up going down as you drilled all of the information there is to be out of the bucket crafting process.

[jgudge]

i liked the test server better, it had its own learning system (study/curiosities/discoveries) that would replace this type of grind

Why do i hear so much about this test server, is it moderator and dev only? I'd like to get in on the glitchy buggy action!

[burgingham]

There is none right now. It is usually open to a limited circle of players invited by the devs only. Opening it for everyone would just cause too much input at a time, which is what they are trying to avoid I guess.