My Suggestion for Trade

[Yolan]

Apart from better forms of transport, the kind of stuff I think is sorely lacking right now from H&H is pretty much related to village management, and trade. We really need ways to help make the world link together, but in a way that does not detract from the general feel of the game as player run, not NPC run. The value of goods is up to us, not to an arbitrary system.

In another thread Jorb made a suggestion for kind of meta-level markets that kind of freaked me out. I am worried about the consequences for any kind of complexity emerging if we can just click on a 'trade' idol in a village and instantly buy stuff from around the world. Some have suggested that the goods arrive after some 'delay' that takes into account the distance between places. I think, as Potjah noted, that this still detracts from people doing the trading. Still, we _need_ something to replace the current method of out of RoB meetups etc. organised often out of game.

My Trade Suggestion:

New Building: Trade Post

A trade post can be constructed by a village lawspeaker.
Any player can access a trade post, and see a list of

A) goods currently stored and for sale _in_ that trade post, and
B) goods for sale globally
C) post a trading service advertisement (some form of registration required?)
D) accept a trading commission

C) and D) are effectively the link in the chain. Imagine that people could buy or sell goods from a single location, with the goods physically carried and deposited, and physically picked up. What changes hands as payment is stipulated by the person offering the good. However, imagine that a person wishes to buy some goods from a trading post on the global screen. They must not only 'buy' the item, but they must _also_ go through a list of registered traders, and select one who has a good service fee. The person whose trading service is fee is accepted can then pick up a nailed shut crate with the goods inside. By delivering them to the designated Trading Post, they receive their fee automatically (as it has been deposited by the buyer). The other end of the fee, the 'seller fee' can be picked up by bringing the other end of the bargain back again. Voila, we have trade that both lets people sell goods on an open market, and still requires actual people to shift goods over land and water via whatever method they have at their disposal. Over time, some players might build up a reputation for speedy and safe delivery, and hence can charge more for their transport services than others.

People might ask for all kinds of strange things as a fee for carrying goods, but I suspect that they would try and standardize their charges as much as possible, so as to increase the chance of getting a commission. Likewise, people might end being more likely to sell a certain object if they only ask for coins in exchange. In fact, this could be a major influence on getting people to use coinage. It might be that merchants would charge x steel coins as a standard rate.


What do people think?

[Peter]

I like the idea of having shipping and porters, but not top-down ones like this.
I think that the best system would have to be very straightforward while still secure.

In particular, I'm thinking that there are trade posts- but these can be built by anyone with a skill such as "mercantile" or something (of course, there are restrictions made to prevent them blocking passage, ect). They may then put items up for sale in this post. They do this by putting the item on display and describing it, possibly even making a suggested bid (i.e. "Thirty gold coins" or "two q10+ Rustroots").

Potential buyers go to the trade post and look for items they want. If there is something they're interested in, they simply make a bid on the item. This may be the suggested price, or a different offer. They may do this whether the seller is online or off.

The seller may then look over the offers for the various items and if they see an offer they are pleased with, they may then close the sale, which sends the buyer a message saying that the trade is complete and they may go and exchange the items.

To exchange the items, the buyer merely needs to have his payment in his inventory. When he uses the trade post and selects that option, the deal is instantly completed and the items swapped.

The nice thing about this is that someone who only checks in once a day can still have a lively business, but someone who is on more often is more likely to be around when customers call, and thus will be able to do trades faster.
No NPCs involved, of course.

As an afterthought, "shoplifting" or the currently-existing thievery skill would allow you to try to steal an item. Some protection would be needed to prevent everything from being shoplifted, but it should be an option.

Downsides; there's some procedural problems- two people who are in totally different time zones may spend several days going back and forth, but I feel that this is better than not being able to trade at all.

One thing this would do is allow inter-town traders to work as middlemen- buying iron in a mine town and using it to buy lumber in a forest town and using the lumber to buy iron... virtually meaning that the mine town and forest town are simply trading iron for lumber.

[Yolan]

I think what you have suggested is actually implicit in my system, except that I go further in thinking we need some level of support for inter-town trade.

[Pacho]

Downsides; there's some procedural problems- two people who are in totally different time zones may spend several days going back and forth, but I feel that this is better than not being able to trade at all.

Wait... are you saying here that both parties need to be online at the time? I thought you were suggesting something more like a warehouse, which would make a lot more sense in this system. Have the buying price approved, buyer brings payment items and are swapped with bought items automatically. This implies that the seller leaves the items in the warehouse for the duration of the sale.

Edit: I just realized you said that when it comes to checking and making offers. For that I would suggest some hearth magic be involved in receiving messages using dreams on the hearth fire or something of the sort.

[Peter]

I mean that they don't have to be online simultaneously, but sales would go much faster if they where both there. It's like this:

Day one: Seller puts item for sale
Day two: After seller goes offline for the day, buyer sees item and places a bid
Day three: Seller finally sees the bid and accepts it
Day four: Buyer sees that sale is accepted and collects it.

This is only a problem if they are in very different time zones.

---

I'm saying that inter-town trade will emerge by itself if it's easy for someone to stop in a town, trade with several merchants, and leave.

The difference between my idea and Yolan's is that mine is a small scale > large scale one. I propose that adding a small-scale trading interface would lead to players taking more active trading roles, rather than having the large scale goal of traders and caravaners enforced by the game rules.