Defense - Traps

[Kaitie]

How would people feel about being able to craft 'traps' on claimed land?

There could be traps that are weaker for just 'warning' off intruders, and more sophisticated ones meant to severely injure or even kill.

I thought about that idea when someone was discussing ideas about defense for brick walls; yet, there's no defense for hermits or small communities outside of brick walls. Interestingly enough, you can craft all sorts of weapons and items, but not traps?

Trap ideas could include:
* A hole, a less harmful trap in which an intruder just falls into a small 3x3 hole in the ground.... and the only way out would be to teleport back to their hearth fire.
* A snare, something which doesn't really hurt, but traps an intruder's foot for 1-6 hours (maybe base the length on strength or intelligence of intruder vs quality/ vs quality of rope used), making it impossible for them to move for an amount of time.... if they log out, their body stays online, lootable.
* A spike pit, a lethal version of the above.
* Rigged crossbow on doors of cabins (obviously a higher level, more sophisticated trap), instant death if you entered a 'trapped' door.
* Poisoned food.... have the ability to poison food that you intentionally leave about, so that if anyone comes along and steals and eats it, would get sick, or potentially die depend on the quality of quality/lethality of the poison. As a counter, if you have the skills and can identify the poison, you can make cures.

Anytime a trap is triggered, it needs to be remade/re-rigged.

After all, if a person can run around raiding and pillaging, someone who is keen on survival should have the ability to unlimitedly be just as aggressive in defending their claim. And of course, these traps could only be placed on claims owned, not on anyone else's land and not out in the general woods to prevent abuse.

To me, this would be just fair play, at the very least.

[TeckXKnight]

Centralize trap creation and make triggering them random. Make it so that you establish traps on your Village Claim or Personal Claim totem and whenever someone is trespassing they have a chance to trigger a trap with every step that they take. Higher quality traps deal more damage, but give them a consistent rate of triggering regardless of quality.

This prevents sending in alts to just trip all of the traps on a path, because even a fresh alt can trespass on claimed land without any skills.
This also works out a bit of the tedium of having to check every single trap every day to make sure that they are set. Not to mention that if you're on a bigger claim, this prevents you from having to set a million traps everywhere to get optimum defenses.

Otherwise, nothing that forces a player to be immobile or to have to teleport to get out. Those are terrible, unfun ideas. Not only are they terrible for griefers, they are even worse when they are used by griefers. Now I can just set a long line claim out, place some snare traps, and check back once every 5-6 hours for some free kills/loot.

Instant death is also a huge no. Just no.

[Kaitie]

Centralize trap creation and make triggering them random. Make it so that you establish traps on your Village Claim or Personal Claim totem and whenever someone is trespassing they have a chance to trigger a trap with every step that they take. Higher quality traps deal more damage, but give them a consistent rate of triggering regardless of quality.

This prevents sending in alts to just trip all of the traps on a path, because even a fresh alt can trespass on claimed land without any skills.
This also works out a bit of the tedium of having to check every single trap every day to make sure that they are set. Not to mention that if you're on a bigger claim, this prevents you from having to set a million traps everywhere to get optimum defenses.

Otherwise, nothing that forces a player to be immobile or to have to teleport to get out. Those are terrible, unfun ideas. Not only are they terrible for griefers, they are even worse when they are used by griefers. Now I can just set a long line claim out, place some snare traps, and check back once every 5-6 hours for some free kills/loot.

Instant death is also a huge no. Just no.

I could get on board with that, how about such a compromise where you could make the immobilizing traps maybe 5-10 minutes and then you are free to teleport to your hearth, or free yourself if you have the skill?

[TeckXKnight]

I could get on board with that, how about such a compromise where you could make the immobilizing traps maybe 5-10 minutes and then you are free to teleport to your hearth, or free yourself if you have the skill?

The reasoning behind this is that immobilization is not fun and is counter-intuitive to the rest of the game, just as instant death is. Flat out killing a character for walking on a tile ignores any preparation or character development before this. Artificial wait-times and delays just aren't good mechanics. Too short of a delay and the trap did nothing while too long of a delay and the trap guarantees death. Unlike many other things, there is no Goldilocks zone as the ideal delay time is dependent on shifting variables that will rarely, if ever, lineup with the trap itself. I think 5-10 minutes is selling it too short, while 6 hours is making it too deadly.

Rather than constrain a target's movement in this manner, have it take effect on their valuable forms of mobility; being ensnared may prevent them from teleporting away, reduce their maximum movement speed to walking until the condition wears off, or may simply block their ability to commit acts of vandalism until it wears off.

These things suck if you are trying to raid or cause problems, but aren't going to break the game or lead to problems in other areas.

[Kaitie]

I could get on board with that, how about such a compromise where you could make the immobilizing traps maybe 5-10 minutes and then you are free to teleport to your hearth, or free yourself if you have the skill?

Rather than constrain a target's movement in this manner, have it take effect on their valuable forms of mobility; being ensnared may prevent them from teleporting away, reduce their maximum movement speed to walking until the condition wears off, or may simply block their ability to commit acts of vandalism until it wears off.

These things suck if you are trying to raid or cause problems, but aren't going to break the game or lead to problems in other areas.

Yeah, I would have to agree with you on this point, for sure. Make traps effective, but not overtly deadly, but have some immobilization/injury that could be countered, etc.

[NOOBY93]

I could get on board with that, how about such a compromise where you could make the immobilizing traps maybe 5-10 minutes and then you are free to teleport to your hearth, or free yourself if you have the skill?

Rather than constrain a target's movement in this manner, have it take effect on their valuable forms of mobility; being ensnared may prevent them from teleporting away, reduce their maximum movement speed to walking until the condition wears off, or may simply block their ability to commit acts of vandalism until it wears off.

These things suck if you are trying to raid or cause problems, but aren't going to break the game or lead to problems in other areas.

Yeah, I would have to agree with you on this point, for sure. Make traps effective, but not overtly deadly, but have some immobilization/injury that could be countered, etc.

What's with the immobilization/injury? He clearly stated it would strike your abilities rather than injure you or immobilize you; I have to agree with him. But what if your obsession is more... Personal?
It's okay to say it, Kaitie. Did you get raided in the past few days and just WANT to see those raiders trapped/injured/killed? I know how you feel, but it's not going to be implemented.


Tl;dr: No. Don't be butthurt.

[Kaitie]

Yeah, I would have to agree with you on this point, for sure. Make traps effective, but not overtly deadly, but have some immobilization/injury that could be countered, etc.

What's with the immobilization/injury? He clearly stated it would strike your abilities rather than injure you or immobilize you; I have to agree with him. But what if your obsession is more... Personal?
It's okay to say it, Kaitie. Did you get raided in the past few days and just WANT to see those raiders trapped/injured/killed? I know how you feel, but it's not going to be implemented. .[/b]

Oh no, no humans have not been anywhere near me that I could tell.... the only thing I've been raided by are bears. the only people I've seen took me hours to find during an exploration trip. I'm just tossing out ideas as I see the remnants of villages that have been raided, many, many, many, many of them... ransacked hermit huts that had no ways to defend themselves. Runestones standing perched as testaments to the raiders who did it, one after the other; what appears to be entire cities razed to the ground. And, I notice by reading there is a severe lack of any defenses for anyone but walls; and even walls can't save you, and nothing can prevent a raid if you're just not there to start with. And given that raiders, from what I've read, tend to have 'super human abilities' capped only by how much food they consume... I'm pretty sure striking their abilities alone will do nothing to discourage or hamper any sort of character powerful enough to raid or punch through wood palisades. Super ninjas ftw!

I've really been starting to question the 'balance' people think this game seems to have... when everything I read really says the opposite; the game lacks balance, it's seriously tipped in the favor of aggressors with literally zero defenses for people who want to protect themselves except to become another 'super ninja' who can punch through walls and stay online 24/7.

In the short time I've been here, HnH has amazed me and yet appalled me; amazed me at the level of detail and attention to detail at that, yet appalled me at what I've been reading. It's an amazing and genius world created by two obviously passionate and talented people but being destroyed by unchecked and unbalanced 'super characters'. This is nowhere near the 'realism' I've read that described this as a sandbox crafting game.

I'm not saying this as an insult, mind you, but as someone with a fresh point of view who has been learning and absorbing every bit of knowledge possible; and from someone who in such a short time has fallen in love with Haven and Hearth.

Personally, I'm not taking the game at all seriously, if raiders were to come into my camp, kill me, and destroy everything.... I'd just go, "Meh" and build somewhere else. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on some kinds of ridiculousness that is obviously out of whack in this game, even to an outsider like me who can see it clear as day.

[NOOBY93]

Oh no, no humans have not been anywhere near me that I could tell.... the only thing I've been raided by are bears. the only people I've seen took me hours to find during an exploration trip. I'm just tossing out ideas as I see the remnants of villages that have been raided, many, many, many, many of them... ransacked hermit huts that had no ways to defend themselves. Runestones standing perched as testaments to the raiders who did it, one after the other; what appears to be entire cities razed to the ground. And, I notice by reading there is a severe lack of any defenses for anyone but walls; and even walls can't save you, and nothing can prevent a raid if you're just not there to start with. And given that raiders, from what I've read, tend to have 'super human abilities' capped only by how much food they consume... I'm pretty sure striking their abilities alone will do nothing to discourage or hamper any sort of character powerful enough to raid or punch through wood palisades. Super ninjas ftw!

I've really been starting to question the 'balance' people think this game seems to have... when everything I read really says the opposite; the game lacks balance, it's seriously tipped in the favor of aggressors with literally zero defenses for people who want to protect themselves except to become another 'super ninja' who can punch through walls and stay online 24/7.

In the short time I've been here, HnH has amazed me and yet appalled me; amazed me at the level of detail and attention to detail at that, yet appalled me at what I've been reading. It's an amazing and genius world created by two obviously passionate and talented people but being destroyed by unchecked and unbalanced 'super characters'. This is nowhere near the 'realism' I've read that described this as a sandbox crafting game.

I'm not saying this as an insult, mind you, but as someone with a fresh point of view who has been learning and absorbing every bit of knowledge possible; and from someone who in such a short time has fallen in love with Haven and Hearth.

Personally, I'm not taking the game at all seriously, if raiders were to come into my camp, kill me, and destroy everything.... I'd just go, "Meh" and build somewhere else. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on some kinds of ridiculousness that is obviously out of whack in this game, even to an outsider like me who can see it clear as day.

Sorry for derailing, but if I were you, I'd cherish the 'see no people, some, but hours from camp' sitation. I've been looking for that shit for years.
Back to the thread; Your ideas are very nice, but not very likeable by those made paranoid by the griefer part of the community. What I'm trying to say is, never, I mean absolutely NEVER, will this game be free of exploiters.

[Saxony4]

a pitfall or a pit of stakes would be a nice deterrent for a settlement, a snare that ties you up on a rope would be a great trap to have, could also be implemented to be used for hunting.

[Guard1]

To me, this would be just fair play, at the very least.

kk, I guess I'll claim whole mountain or lake or whatever and set a shitload of those traps. This is so fair!
Also consider that many players take land (in many cases - for ever, that is till the wipe) and resources, and drop the game. Why on earth active players should not use it in a very limited way like stealing and tresspassing (you can't build a settlement on a giant pclaim)?

Anyways, I had exactly the same idea about poisons and antidotes.
P.S. Is it SO hard for you to build a damn brick wall?