Caves, Mines and Hearth-fires

[MasterCatfish]

Hearth fires don't go with the other two, and it's pretty disappointing when you've discovered a mine really deep in a cave. I suggest that hearthfires be buildable in either mines or caves, or both. I assume this is intentional, but I can't really understand why. Is it so some mines will go untouched until they're the last ones left?

It makes me sad that I could get metal if I were willing to take a ~30 minute crawl (carrying containers since there can be no smelters in caves) for each trip.

[sabinati]

hmmm well that does suck.

[Delamore]

Hearth fires don't go with the other two, and it's pretty disappointing when you've discovered a mine really deep in a cave. I suggest that hearthfires be buildable in either mines or caves, or both. I assume this is intentional, but I can't really understand why. Is it so some mines will go untouched until they're the last ones left?

It makes me sad that I could get metal if I were willing to take a ~30 minute crawl (carrying containers since there can be no smelters in caves) for each trip.

You could build everything in mines last map, and it made mines as a whole alot more interesting.
This map the mine is just the hole ore comes from, there is nothing of interest in it.

[theTrav]

Hearth fires in mines were being exploited both for locking the entrance as well as for permanent light sources.

The other things I dunno, maybe the dev's feel that a mine is more of a narrow tunnel rather than a giant cavern and therefore can't really accommodate the large buildings (even though that may not be graphically represented terribly well).

I'd definitely like to see mines made more interesting, but my preference would be more changes along the lines of ore veins, gems, underground rivers, links to caves, cave in mechanics etc.

hauling stuff out of mines is a pain, but if you build your hearth just by the entrance then you only have to run one way and you can run that direction, as opposed to crawling out carrying a cupboard.

[loftar]

I would certainly like to make things buildable in caves, at least; I'd even say all things, not just hearth fires. The problem is just that it would be so insanely exploitable -- many people know how hard it is to find a mine in a cave; just imagine tracking criminals who've built their hearth fires in caves. The only reason why hearth fires aren't buildable in caves is because we haven't been able to figure out a good way to solve that.

[CG62]

just imagine tracking criminals who've built their hearth fires in caves. .

That's the whole idea of living within a cave. Difficulty of tracking.

Perhaps implement some sort of localized travel-sign system for cave/mine usage only in the form of mine carts? Then we wouldn't need to be able to build hearth fires in caves.

[Peter]

just imagine tracking criminals who've built their hearth fires in caves. .

That's the whole idea of living within a cave. Difficulty of tracking.

Perhaps implement some sort of localized travel-sign system for cave/mine usage only in the form of mine carts? Then we wouldn't need to be able to build hearth fires in caves.

Look, there's good ideas and ideas that try too hard. This is the latter.
Why add an entirely new feature, entirely duplicating work done somewhere else, and requiring new art for most of it, to be used by the thirty or forty players that have mines, when a purely algorithmic solution is all that's needed?

I'm not certain how this tracking/searching algorithm works, but why not simply have it so that when a cave or mine is within the search radii of something, it creates a second search point inside this region?
It sounds so simple, but perhaps I'm still missing something here...

[sabinati]

can you build a cart in a cave or mine? i don't think you currently can, but i think you should be able to. and they should move at the same speed they do on mudflat tiles.

[CG62]

just imagine tracking criminals who've built their hearth fires in caves. .

That's the whole idea of living within a cave. Difficulty of tracking.

Perhaps implement some sort of localized travel-sign system for cave/mine usage only in the form of mine carts? Then we wouldn't need to be able to build hearth fires in caves.

Look, there's good ideas and ideas that try too hard. This is the latter.
Why add an entirely new feature, entirely duplicating work done somewhere else, and requiring new art for most of it, to be used by the thirty or forty players that have mines, when a purely algorithmic solution is all that's needed?

I'm not certain how this tracking/searching algorithm works, but why not simply have it so that when a cave or mine is within the search radii of something, it creates a second search point inside this region?
It sounds so simple, but perhaps I'm still missing something here...

I was gonna suggest allowing the hearth being tacked to ping the map for the nearest cave entrance attached to it's current cave system, but my general ignorance of Java, and any programming language really, lead me to believe that would be quite a difficult thing to program.

I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag, okay?

[Jackard]

I would certainly like to make things buildable in caves, at least; I'd even say all things, not just hearth fires. The problem is just that it would be so insanely exploitable -- many people know how hard it is to find a mine in a cave; just imagine tracking criminals who've built their hearth fires in caves. The only reason why hearth fires aren't buildable in caves is because we haven't been able to figure out a good way to solve that.

would your pathfinding help solve this? would it be possible to have some sort of indicator appear (footprints?) if you can actually reach the hearth from the current cluster?