The pain of trying to help noobs ...

[CSPAN]

Europe is experiencing this very problem with people who are noobs to western civilization! gimmie gimmie gimmie!

triggered triggered triggered

[CSPAN]

You meant the free money they get for they kids? ;D

basic income is a good idea

you trollin right?

[enlightenedcake]

I found this article from 1932 to be quite thought-provoking with regard to our endless desire for 'productivity'. However, this is an issue at the very core of our society, and a change like this would have to happen very slowly and carefully to not disrupt our society too much.

You might want to Google "The paradise within the reach of all men, without labour, by powers of nature and machinery : an address to all intelligent men" ... a book from 1830 ...

The only reason for why we are still working 40 hours a week instead of 5-10 is because we are stupid ... stupid enough to listen to morons who keep talking about "growth" and "creating jobs" ... stupid enough to realize that we don't need "growth" and "jobs" but purchasing power ... and purchasing power can be generated by incrementing an integer value within a database ...

And so we watch how 3 billion #bullshitjobs are destroying us, our society, our biosphere and our climate ... they cause traffic jams, they waste like 75% of our resources, time and energy. We need to get rid of them and people who tell us that we need more pointless jobs.

For those who care ... a short list of the most obvious #bullshitjobs ... there are far more if you consider that people with irrelevant jobs lack the time and energy to aquire meaningful skills and so they will need other people with relevant jobs because they only know systemic garbage about tax-accounting or stuff like that:

Most of us are already familiar with the concept of <a href="http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/" title="On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs - STRIKE!">#bullshitjobs</a> - i.e. the circumstance that most of our jobs are purely systemic and that they do not benefit humanity. The most obvious examples would probably be marketing, lobbying, tax accounting, real estate brokerage, banking, working for insurances, accounting, cashiers, etc. - basically all the jobs that are a symptom of maintaining a fear, ego, competition, artificial scarcity and market based economy and the resulting value- and incentive system.

Then there are less obvious #bullshitjobs stemming from systemic redundancy. We got a thousand companies producing a thousand different mobile phones, wrenches, cars and a million other things. So each company employs its own researchers, engineers and other people doing rather meaningful things (compared to the aforementioned jobs) but their overall headcount is just ridiculously high because of said redundancy. We could probably get rid of 90% of those headcounts by "only" producing 20 to 30 different (highly customizable, individualized) high quality mobile phones, wrenches and cars in a cooperative, open-source manner without having to maintain a thousand individual R&D labs, a thousand individual marketing, legal, human resources and accounting departments and without any asymmetries in the context of R&D or knowledge and without having to care about patents or law suits.

A special breed of #bullshitjobs represent those jobs who are currently considered to be highly relevant jobs like charity, social and street workers, psychotherapists, etc. which also would become obsolete within a sane, cooperative socioeconomic environment. Well, we might still need a few psychotherapists but clearly not nearly as many as we do within our contemporary socioeconomic insanity.

[enlightenedcake]

You meant the free money they get for they kids? ;D

Paying people NOT to do systemic garbage is actually MORE beneficial for society than what they would be doing in #bullshitjobs. If I sit at home on my toilet and count my farts for 8 hours a day ... then I'd be still MORE beneficial for society than what 90% of our workforce is doing in their #bullshitjobs. Counting my farts does not maintain a broken monetary system and it does not legitimize a broken socioeconomic framework, it does not promote scarcity nor insecurity/fear (like people working for insurances and marketing do ... or cashiers who defend an abundance of potatoes against hungry people who lack _purchasing power_), I don't end up suffering from a depression or burnout, I don't cause traffic jams, I don't waste resources and energy, I don't promote and maintain the retarded idea of "having a career", etc., etc., etc., ...

Giving people free money is much, much, much, much more beneficial for everybody than it is to force people to find more and more pointless #bullshitjobs and/or to fight over less and less money (read http://sacred-economics.com/ if you don't understand our monetary system ... it's a wonderful book).

It's just utterly stupid to think of "free money" as something negative in a world in which people are destroying themselves and our planet because they believe that "any job" is better than "no job" and in which people are forced to do the most destructive and pointless things just because the establishment does not want to lose control over the money supply ... because who knows what a truly free society might do ... people might actually grow and develop and they might actually start to question a lot of culturally accepted nonsense ...

You know what happens if you force people into unnecessary systemic poverty and anxiety ... then open your history books and read about 1930 ... how a crazy demagogue suddenly managed to find millions of angry supporters ... and we are seeing similar developments right now all over the world. Half of Europe already got crazy "leaders" ... Trump found millions of angry supporters ... and because most people don't understand "the system" it's easier to follow Hitlers and Trumps into the abyss of our structural insanity. Free money is the only way out ... generating interest-free money for every person on this planet ... unconditionally ... and we are finally, slowly heading there ... after decades of lobbyism and socioeconomic activism. So once you receive your share of "free money" think about how you sold it as something negative on a random forum on the internet.

[Karede]

I'm sorry, but this is our conservative hugbox. Please go
You're disrupting my comfort zone

On a more serious note, where are you getting your opinions? Do I just need to go read the book you keep shilling to understand?

[bitza]

if everyone gets free money then who's gonna clean the toilets, dumbass

[thesourceofsadness]

At first i was wonder how someone could be so delusional 'bout people in Haven, but when i saw all other liberal bullshit, everything fell into place.

[Zeler]

As a wise man said, niggers, spics, jews AND sandniggers means trouble.

[enlightenedcake]

At first i was wonder how someone could be so delusional 'bout people in Haven, but when i saw all other liberal bullshit, everything fell into place.

It's funny how people feel the urge to label common sense.

Machines do most of our relevant work ... that's a fact.
Our monetary system forces us to invent pointless jobs for no reason ... that's a fact.
Money can be created free of interest ... nobody needs to waste resources and cause traffic jams in order to obtain purchasing power ... that's a fact.
6-7 countries are already working on implementing a basic income because the labor market has been obsolete for like 30 years ... ever since the market got over-saturated a 100-fold ... that's a fact.

How you react to those facts ... that's common sense ... but people who enjoy to divide people into groups so they can feel superior ... said people like phrases like "liberal bullshit" ... even though they understand little to nothing about what's going on out there ...

[enlightenedcake]

Some common sense from Stephen Hawking ... without any labels or buzzwords ...

"If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

Let me translate this for you into plain English: We need "free money" because the work-for-income paradigm has been obsoleted by machines. "Economy" comes from "to economize". It has nothing to do with "economizing" to maintain 3 billion #bullshitjobs which destroy our society, climate and biosphere and to force people to compete over purchasing power in a world of absolute abundance.

Now we got two options: "free purchasing power for everybody" or we continue with "business as usual" and watch how the world turns into angry Trump supporters who spend most of their time worrying about financial survival, who degenerate and radicalize ... who do #bullshitjobs for less and less money ... who cannibalize themselves in the name of "market logic" ... just because people like you don't understand how our monetary system and (anti-)economy works.

That should be common sense ... no?