Coronavirus

[AtoB]

Slight problems with the vaccines:

For one corona virus works similar to HIV. As the success of vaccine development there is... lacking there things do not look that good.

For another most of the 'new' vaccines are RNA based. General idea is to have the cells of the subject produce the virus proteins for the immune system to be trained against them and create the needed antibodies. Two subtypes: One is mRNA (messenger) based, which is introduced into the cells where it acts like normal messenger RNA (being read by the 'factories' of the cell to create proteins) till it destabilizes. The other is rRNA (reconbinative) based, this one will rewrite the DNA of the subject to basically have the altered DNA create mRNA of the first subtype, even after mitosis, on a constant basis. Problem is that if something goes slightly wrong (like an allergic or immune system over-reaction) the subject is fucked (less with mRNA as that will pass in case he survives, but with the rRNA case it'll be pernanent) and will, when lucky, die quickly - only option to 'cure' (or at least reduce the problem) this is to chop off the limb that received the vaccine. Last information you need to decide if you'll willingly get this shit: we are in a hurry and skip the safety trials, experts project about 1% to have an adverse reaction.

Another problem is that vaccines only work against things that actually exist - which isn't the case anymore with SARS-COV-2 here in Germany. It's gone, what is reported on a daily basis is on the level of the false-positve rate from the PCR test. Even the 'mass ourbreaks' that for some reason happen in industrial meat plants (but as it seems only 'infecting' the workers that cut up the animals using power tools) do not generate the intensive care patients that should exist in case the models used are correct.


Corona deaths in Sweden, normal average is around 245 per day:


Corona deaths in the US, normal average is around 10k per day:


This thing is over. And it wasn't as dangerous as it was rumored to be.

Additionally the way corona deaths are counted is a complete joke, it's now official that when you get PCR tested positive for SARS-COV-2, then after being healed (several PCR tests, taken over weeks, all negative) you die (cause irrelevant) you've officially died of COVID-19 and just increased the danger of this pandemic - even if you just offed yourself because you lost your job and didn't feel like starving. The only real problem is the panic that is caused by our rulers - and their actions that continue to destroy the economy.

[shubla]

Slight problems with the vaccines:

For one corona virus works similar to HIV. As the success of vaccine development there is... lacking there things do not look that good.

I'm pretty sure that HIV and coronaviruses do not have too much in common.

One would think that if coronavirus was fast to mutate (thus rendering vaccines useless) there wouldn't be development of vaccines. But then again, it's so politically (and capitalistically) driven that who knows!

I would hardly say that it's over though. Cases have decreased probably because of people being more alert and restrictions (like remote working in offices). Soon people will get bored and start not washing their hands etc. Offices will return to normal work(hopefully), and then the cases will rise again.
I think humanity should just deal with coronavirus instead of hiding and accept that it is probably not going away, and that there may be new (worse) virus coming very soon!

[MagicManICT]

swine flu vaccine [...] rushed [...]

The last major break out of swine flu before the vaccine was 1968-'69. The vaccine wasn't available until '76. If that was rushed, what do we call this? There was a first human trial in under two months of the company getting the DNA sequencing of the virus. But I do get your point. Pure anti-body vaccines shouldn't have any lasting side effects. How those vaccines are produced, on the other hand, can have consequences.

For one corona virus works similar to HIV. As the success of vaccine development there is... lacking there things do not look that good.

Now, I'm an idiot when it comes to cellular biology... or at least compared to those that have actually studied biology, but doesn't HIV actually attack the T-cells directly (which is why it has proven as a hidden blessing to virology research), and covid-19 just suppress the system via the cellular messaging systems that regulate immune responses? Which is why there's such a huge issue with other side effects.... etc etc.

vaccines only work against things that actually exist - which isn't the case anymore with SARS-COV-2 here in Germany.

Small pox no longer exists anymore*... except in research laboratories scattered around the world. It's enough that one wrong incident could make it a real thing again. Just because a few countries--Germany, New Zealand to name a couple--have been able to control the spread of a thing doesn't mean the thing no longer exists. Sticking your head in the sand by any means is bad, whether you deny it as a government hoax or want to pretend you can no longer get it "because my country has got it under control." At least with small pox, we could have the world immunized within a couple of years, tops, as we already have the vaccine.

I'm pretty sure that HIV and coronaviruses do not have too much in common.

The only thing they have in common is that the normal immune response is suppressed while infected. covid-19 has more in common with influenza.

*Some basic information on small pox via the US CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html. Included are the first studies into viral inoculation by using a related, but less dangerous virus (cow pox); the eradication program; and research uses of the virus. Wikipedia has a more thorough discussion of it. I picked this because it was shorter and to the point.

[AtoB]

swine flu vaccine [...] rushed [...]

The last major break out of swine flu before the vaccine was 1968-'69. The vaccine wasn't available until '76. If that was rushed, what do we call this? There was a first human trial in under two months of the company getting the DNA sequencing of the virus. But I do get your point. Pure anti-body vaccines shouldn't have any lasting side effects. How those vaccines are produced, on the other hand, can have consequences.

Terminal stage capitalism approach to make money fast, consequences be dammed. Or do you have a better explanation why we run experiments on humans without knowing the amount of empty chambers for this version of russian roulette - or without a cloud if the thing we test on them is (when staying in the picture) more akin to an automatic weapon?

The production part of classical vaccines seems to be (good enough) under control by now, the issue is that the bandwidth of human reactions to a vaccine reaches from no effect at all to sudden death - with your problem for deciding (get it or not) being that you don't know what will happen to you. So you can only apply the statistics that can be extracted from the ones who have gotten it before you... and gamble on not ending up in the group that draws the short straw, like the ones now suffering from narcolepsy linked to a certain swine flue vaccine (that was also slightly rushed - and completely unneeded).

For one corona virus works similar to HIV. As the success of vaccine development there is... lacking there things do not look that good.

Now, I'm an idiot when it comes to cellular biology... or at least compared to those that have actually studied biology, but doesn't HIV actually attack the T-cells directly (which is why it has proven as a hidden blessing to virology research), and covid-19 just suppress the system via the cellular messaging systems that regulate immune responses? Which is why there's such a huge issue with other side effects.... etc etc.

Problem is that you need to target the virus while having as little collateral damage as possible. The latter part is what is not working that good, by now we can end any pathogen in a human, no problem... unless the aim is for the human to survive the process.

I'm pretty sure that HIV and coronaviruses do not have too much in common.

The only thing they have in common is that the normal immune response is suppressed while infected. covid-19 has more in common with influenza.

An other (which I referred to) is the way they are able to swap functional RNA segments with other strains (or even species), changing their surface proteins as a way of hiding from the immune system while one the move outside of cells.

Small pox no longer exists anymore*... except in research laboratories scattered around the world. It's enough that one wrong incident could make it a real thing again.
[...]
At least with small pox, we could have the world immunized within a couple of years, tops, as we already have the vaccine.
[moved the footnote up]
*Some basic information on small pox via the US CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html. Included are the first studies into viral inoculation by using a related, but less dangerous virus (cow pox); the eradication program; and research uses of the virus. Wikipedia has a more thorough discussion of it. I picked this because it was shorter and to the point.

Smallpox is a stable virus (no mutation rate to speak of), hence it's possible to have a vaccine based on a less lethal version of that virus. Other virus kinds are unstable in that regard, as of this a 'dead (or less deadly) virus' approach of vaccine will not work on these.

Nevertheless, please ask yourself why we, as we could, do not just force smallpox vaccine on everyone (worldwide) to be done with it? Then ask yourself what logic might have caused our lawmakers to make the SARS-COV-2 vaccine mandatory by law (here in Germany through local legislation, EU wide is currently underway - no clue, and only care little, about the rest of the world like everybody else but I suspect similar to happen elsewhere) way before one even exists...

vaccines only work against things that actually exist - which isn't the case anymore with SARS-COV-2 here in Germany.

Just because a few countries--Germany, New Zealand to name a couple--have been able to control the spread of a thing doesn't mean the thing no longer exists.
Sticking your head in the sand by any means is bad, whether you deny it as a government hoax or want to pretend you can no longer get it "because my country has got it under control."

I agree. Let us look at some official statistics to see if we can extract knowledge, shall we?

Starting with RKI influenza monitoring:

The practice index is based on data on acute respiratory diseases of the current season (red), compared to 2018/2019 and 2017/2018.
Index values ​​up to 115 correspond to the background activity.

That figure is about all reported acute respiratory cases in germany, this includes each and everything tagged COVID-19.
In case you should be able to extract a reason to panic from this: please explain your perspective.
And do you notice that 2020 follows the pattern of the prior years, which did not have lockdown and shit?

Or take the chart on daily cases and deaths from the European CDC:

Please explain to me how this chart makes you see a problem huge enough to warrant the panic caused? In case that is difficult try the chart on total cases and deaths (the one used by media to report on the thing like a sports event, with a daily new and better high score) - but then you mislead yourself (and possibly also others) as both charts use the same raw data, the latter with a 'panic' form of representation (cumulated numbers that can only go up) while the former has a sane representation that (at least for me) indicates that there is likely nothing to see here and we basically could as well move on with our lives ('old' normality style).


Some fodder for thought:
The first one questioning corona panic here in Germany (who was burned to a crisp at the media stake through being framed as an idiot with strange hair that must not be talked to under any circumstances) was a certain Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg (yes, the one who ended the 2009 swine flu pandemic¹ by exposing it as the false alarm² that it was) for basically just asking: have we measured for this before or did we just start? His point ist that, based all the other indicators (like the amount of reported respiratory diseases, excess deaths³) staying within their normal average levels as all the other years, the thing we measure now either had been there the whole time and we just didn't see it or can not be as dangerous as it is reported.
What in all circles of hell got this guy socially executed for asking this perfectly reasonable question?

¹) central figure pushing the pandemic and the related vaccine back then was a certain Dr. Christian Drosten,,, yes, the one who created and pushed the PCR test that is used to create the current panic and demand for a vaccine
²) swine flu was only a pandemic as the WHO just removed the 'many deaths' requirement from the criteria for a pandemic, same goes for coronavirus as it seems
³) which did not happen unless the area:

• fucked up their health system to eg. be on the brink of being overwhelmed on a constant basis (eg. Italy) or have the people ignoring it as they can't foot the bills that come with it (US)
• failed to protect the risk group (by putting humans that suffer from a pulmonary disease into care facilities for the elderly, which then spread whatever they had to the old and frail there - with a non-surprising outcome) which has happened in most of the hotspots and is the main cause of deaths in most countries (even the ones that didn't do lockdowns, like Sweden)
• did medical experiments on humans (which, given 'The (Undercover) Epicenter Nurse' video I linked holds any water, has happened in the US on a broad basis) out of greed
• did medical experiments on humans (given that the protocol to treat COVID-19 patients that was advertised by the WHO - chemical cocktail, intubate early, pray - has a fair chance to kill even healthy persons) out of stupidity
• just had inoculated a whole area, stressing the immune system of the whole population, as happened in the hotspot in Italy, or had driven down the immune system of the average human by having instillied fear in the population
• caused them in the form of collateral damage through the 'measures' employed (like staff of care homes for the elderly fleeing, resulting in the 'inmates' dying of neglect and dehydration, because of the reported deadly disease)

[MagicManICT]

See, this is where it all goes over my head. I really don't care to understand the numbers as I'll react to it like I react to anything--just go crawl up in my cave and let the world move on a few months. Great news is--I have Internet access in my cave, so I don't have to be a complete social pariah during my voluntary lockdown.

There's three things I'm good at: music, computers, and food. I'd say "chemistry/physics" too, but I never really pushed the boundaries on those enough. Biology? Too messy for me.

Note: yes, i've read an article somewhere talking about certain aspects of covid-19 and hiv acting similar in certain ways, but as I gathered from the article, the similarity is akin to two people walking down the street--they're both walking, and that's where the similarity ends. one is a big thug that will kill you, the other is a little conniving thing that sneaks around and eventually gets others to kill you for him.

I also see a lot of unecessary charts (links would have been better) and a lot of lacking economics discussions where historical analysis has been done on the cost of pandemics has been done. I've seen them on cholera, Spanish flu epidemic of 1918-19, bubonic plague, etc. Death and disability has a huge lasting impact on the economy. Lockdowns are temporary.

Again, don't keep your head in the sand. Just because there are no cases in Germany doesn't mean a thing doesn't exist. You can't keep your borders closed forever. For that matter, "there are no reported cases in North Korea" either.

Please explain to me how this chart makes you see a problem huge enough to warrant the panic caused?

Who's panicking? this is a thing we can control the spread of, so we should control the spread. We still don't know the long term effects, and thus economic impact, of someone that recovers from an infection. Just look at lyme disease--one thing that can have very long term consequences, and we still don't know all of it yet.

[AtoB]

Another perspective:

Look at https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average (add other countries if you want, doesn't change a thing) where the absolute high score is held by San Marino (Italy) with a whopping 63.14 per million - yes, that is 0,006314% of the population that (when averaged over a week) succumbed on march 22.

That was twice the (no-adjusted for season) average of the amount of humans that end (given 80 years life expencancy) daily anyway.
But as that was a singular day instead of happening on a daily basis...

Explain to me, please: where the fuck is the problem and why the fuck do we still care even slightly about the whole thing?

[AtoB]

Oh, regarding the San Marino high score: they have only 33k population in total, so in absolute numbers we're talking ~15 humans who died there to create this impressive peak... a bus accident is more devastating.

Sorry, IMHO nothing to see here.
In case you think otherwise: please explain how to reach that conclusion.

[shubla]

Another perspective:

Look at https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average (add other countries if you want, doesn't change a thing) where the absolute high score is held by San Marino (Italy) with a whopping 63.14 per million - yes, that is 0,006314% of the population that (when averaged over a week) succumbed on march 22.

That was twice the (no-adjusted for season) average of the amount of humans that end (given 80 years life expencancy) daily anyway.
But as that was a singular day instead of happening on a daily basis...

Explain to me, please: where the fuck is the problem and why the fuck do we still care even slightly about the whole thing?

As some people mentioned, population of san marino is so small that you cannot really use it for any comparisons.
But I agree that governments overreact, why? Purely political reasons. Majority of people want government to do something in things like these, so then the government does things. Even though that may always not be wise.

[Jalpha]

Have you seen?

I had not. Interesting perspective. I have had my own experiences with malicious and/or incompetant degenerate medical practitioners which is the source of my skeptical cynicism. Money is equally capable of enabling the best and worst of human behaviours.

I highly recommend that each individual take much greater interest in their own health and all treatments they receive.

In case you have enough room to get away from other people (which does not work that good in cities) and never ever want to meet anyone else... maybe.

It only took 4-6 weeks. I feel like that isn't much to ask. A big part of the reason for the now rapidly escalating situation in Australia is large family gatherings in breach of social distancing requirements. Family household groups were not a problem because within the four week window an entire household can contract and recover from the virus.

The conversation has moved quickly and a lot of the information is beyond my passing interest. However I do want to make people aware that a very promising vaccine is expected to be distributed from the UK by the end of the year. Fingers crossed it will be business as usual not so long after that.

[AtoB]

In case you have enough room to get away from other people (which does not work that good in cities) and never ever want to meet anyone else... maybe.

It only took 4-6 weeks. I feel like that isn't much to ask

Question: How is this supposed to practically happen in cities?

A big part of the reason for the now rapidly escalating situation in Australia is large family gatherings in breach of social distancing requirements.

Do these outbreaks increase the hospitalization rate and deaths?

Asking because that is happening here with reported outbreaks: they get reported but the amount of humans needing hospitalization or even intensive care do not scale up with the increased reported cases. Something is wrong there and I would like to know what.

Family household groups were not a problem because within the four week window an entire household can contract and recover from the virus.

Does not matter, see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 21716.html for the newest pig being lead through the village.

a lot of the information is beyond my passing interest.

What's the meaning of that? 'Don't care'? Incompatible with mainstream media and from this to be ignored?
Honest question.

However I do want to make people aware that a very promising vaccine is expected to be distributed from the UK by the end of the year. Fingers crossed it will be business as usual not so long after that.

They are all promising because they all want to secure pre-sales, They all will not have received enough testing, scientists who deal with vaccines expect them to cause more harm than good because of this.