Coronavirus

[MagicManICT]

There are large particles and small particles. Small airborne particles are unlikely to sustain the virus for as long as they are airborne. Larger particles have generally been understood to be much more likely to harbor virus particles forlonger but they do not remain airborne for as long. This is why I am constantly saying social distancing is more important than masks.

Exactly. Though social distancing doesn't do a damn bit of good, in my opinion, if you're on a constant move such as in a market. Where a person coughs or sneezes will have multiple people pass through the same area within just a few minutes. In comparison, if you're at a job, you generally have the one desk you stay at the whole day, and if you make a small cloud there, it will often "dry up" faster than it will dissipate into the surrounding environment (things like ventilation and humidity levels etc being factors in the distance and speed).

The WHO is a political body, though, just like most governments have some form of medical regulatory body. You just can't avoid it. The members are appointed by somebody who has political agendas. They also have their own personalities. Just like you might not like the general practitioner you go to because they don't want to listen to your complaint of a pain in your shoulder and say "it's in your head" (could be) and another doctor you go to says you have some odd condition that only can be fixed with a very, very expensive surgery. We get those same types of attitudes and beliefs out of administrative bodies.

I guess I am reacting badly to having my freedoms taken away

But what freedoms are you getting taken away?

[MagicManICT]

I guess I am reacting badly to having my freedoms taken away

But what freedoms are you getting taken away?

Not 30 minutes after I post this....

I see in a news article posted earlier this afternoon (local US time), New York State has issued fines for those violating quarantine orders and are requiring travel permissions to enter the state depending on where you're coming from. Fines for violation can be up to $10,000 US (for nonessential workers violating quaratine orders) and $2,000 US for violating the travel order.

That said, Florida's heath department said they don't have ICU beds available in over 50 hospitals. This is where Italy got into trouble. We (as a global community) have at least found means of treatment that improve recovery rates. We're still having issues in the US getting tests for those that need them.

[Zentetsuken]

imagine being such a privileged first world baby that you think having to wear a mask in to a store to protect your fellow man is having your freedom taken away

yikes


however, I guess making broad, false statements about something that is irritating you isn't such a bad way of dealing with this anger

if only all the karens of the world could keep their disagreeable behaviors online

[Jalpha]

Social isolation worked in New Zealand. If you want to know what works then look at the examples of places which have eradicated the virus. I do still believe something is going around in some places. Masks are not working.

But what freedoms are you getting taken away?

I left Australia to go on a journey of personal growth which I believe I needed badly. In the months before lockdown I feel I have grown and matured more as a person than in the thirty years prior. Now my ability to travel is seriously restricted. Not only that but the experiences available to me are no longer as positive.

I did have access to smaller hostels which usually have people similar to myself whom I can learn from and grow with. These smaller hostels have mostly closed down. What is now available to me seems to be only the larger hostels which are populated with a combination of thieves, junkies and deadbeats who have ceased growing. Other oportunitiees for personal growth like volunteering somewhere positive are also very difficult to find now.

Borders are restrictive. Everything changes from one week to the next. As somebody in the midst of a trek accross the globe which will take several years I am fighting harder than I should have to to be able to go on. Returning to Australia is a return to stagnation. There is nothing there for me.

So arguably, in my personal circumstance, I am feeling the bite to my personal freedoms more than most.

Some peopl have it worse. I am glad I am not a Romanian or Turkish citizen right now. Having to fill out forms and applications to travel from place to place. In many ways I am still lucky and should be thankful but I am from a land of privilege. I am unused to these circumstances. My passport is one of the best in the world, even now.

[MagicManICT]

I left Australia to go on a journey of personal growth which I believe I needed badly. In the months before lockdown I feel I have grown and matured more as a person than in the thirty years prior. Now my ability to travel is seriously restricted. Not only that but the experiences available to me are no longer as positive.

Is this something to protest when you have to have government permission to even enter or leave a country in the first place? I know I'm bad about being negative on situations in my personal life, namely things like this where life happens to me, not where I make life, but part of gaining that life experience is counting the things that are really important to fight, and learning when it's best to dig in and accept the situation--make it better in whatever way you can for yourself and others around you.

Again, not to change the subject, there's a big line between rights granted by the government (or even God-given or inalienable, if you want to quote the US Constitution), and various perceived freedoms. It's just been so easy in modern times to do many things that it has become a de facto freedom, almost a right, compared to where we were as a society even 50 years ago. In other ways, it was much easier to do some things in the past compared to now. Modern society itself has taken away some freedoms. In the past, you had the freedom to commit murder in the name of a duel. You could easily make liquor and sell it, dodging taxes along the way. (Is it illegal if nobody is capable of enforcing the law?) It was "permissible" in some areas to carry out personal beliefs in such ways that might include mass murder and wholesale oppression of others. (Well, you can probably get away with this in some parts of the world, still.)

And I only mention this because, as Zentetsuken points out, there are those karens of the world that feel like their whole life, ie freedoms, is being infringed upon by some extra public hygiene requirements. Namely, wear a mask, stay "socially distant," wash your hands frequently, etc. It's horrendous here in the US. People were marching and protesting over mask laws. Hell, just in my life time, if you were in certain parts of the US with a mask on, you were likely to be roughly grabbed by cops and subjected to search without question "because gang affiliations." Seems ironic to me....

[Jalpha]

I honestly do not care about masks or being required to follow hygiene procedures. You won't see me smashing a policewomans head into the concrete because she tried to get me to wear a mask (yes this happened in Australia). If the law says wear a mask I wear a mask. If it says stay inside, I stay inside. I also believe you have to give a little to get a little.

Like I said earlier in the thread this situation highlights to me how too much freedom is a bad thing. If everybody was hit with batons until they stayed in their homes for four weeks this would be over in a month. Fact. The people clinging to the false hope offered by masks are the same people who would refuse to stay locked in their homes for four weeks.

From my perspective the freedoms which are important to me are being eroded by collections of individual citizens, not government and not shadow entities. I know there used to be greater freedom of travel in the past. There was a time when I wouldn't even have needed a passport to travel.

So again too much freedom can be a bad thing. However, I reiterate my very strong belief that everyone should be able to express themselves in a suitable environment. Cultural diversity through space and not just time. If I want, there should be somewhere I could live where men could duel one another. To the death if agreed upon.

I would like to see an even greater array of cultural diversity than what we have. There should be somewhere for everybody to express the freedoms which are important to them as individuals. Even so there are times and situations when I believe it is justified to infringe upon any and all personal freedoms.

For me personally this situation is just another oportunity to learn and grow. This process is slow and quite often painful. I am thankful that I do not have to return to Australia. I have that freedom, which is important to me. If it were taken away you would see me on the street participating in whichever protest or riot was taking place at the time.

A part of me fears this is a build up prior to war, and I will not be conscripted to lay down my life for a country whose values I do not share. This chapter is not what bothers me, it is what may be coming next. Is this building up to something more sinister?

People are making this situation worse for themselves. Again, four weeks is all it would take to end this. Four weeks of the world shutting down properly. The most disapointing part for me is not only that people are unable or unwilling to take this step. It is also that nobody can agree on anything.

[MagicManICT]

People are making this situation worse for themselves. Again, four weeks is all it would take to end this. Four weeks of the world shutting down properly. The most disapointing part for me is not only that people are unable or unwilling to take this step. It is also that nobody can agree on anything.

I think it would take longer. There's just too many complications and too many people unwilling to listen to make it effective in four weeks.

[Jalpha]

That may well be the case now the window of oportune timing has passed. From the top to the bottom, most of the population has been near-sighted. If they get shuffled off to war as a result, to keep their economies alive, I will not be able to dredge up a single dreg of sympathy from the cup of their tears.

Hopefully it won't come to that. Vaccine next year right.

[AtoB]

But what freedoms are you getting taken away?

Art. 2 Abs. 1 GG: Every person shall have the right to free development of his personality insofar as he does not violate the rights of others or offend against the constitutional order or the moral law.
Art. 4 Abs. 1 und 2 GG: Freedom of faith and of conscience, and freedom to profess a religious or philosophical creed, shall be inviolable. The undisturbed practice of religion shall be guaranteed.
Art. 8 GG: All Germans shall have the right to assemble peacefully and unarmed without prior notification or permission.
Art. 11 Abs. 1 GG: All Germans shall have the right to move freely throughout the federal territory.
Art. 12, Abs. 1 GG: All Germans shall have the right freely to choose their occupation or profession, their place of work and their place of training.
Art. 13 Abs. 1 GG: The home is inviolable.

You basically ask what my problem is with the government voiding some of what translates to the articles of the US constitution.


And have you actually watched the Arte feature that I linked?

The difference between swine flu and now is that the ones that rightfully called bullshit back then (Wodarg and Bhakdi here in Germany) had been effectively been gagged now with corona (by a campaign in MSM, both video and print, Wikipedia and internet pillories like psiram where they had been branded as senile idiots who are not to be talked to), while the one that tried to fuel the hoax back then ('millions of deaths' that Drosten claimed to happen, which did not) and now do again (more claims about 'millions of deaths') is now sacrosanct and everyone questioning him is destroyed through roorback instead of dealing the the arguments being made. And both swine flu and corona 'pandemics' were only possible because WHO removed 'many deaths' requirement from the definition for no good reason.

Now you'll claim that you have so much deaths in the US: sorry for your loss, but that's on you for giving your privately ran hospitals extra money for 'that one surely has covid, let's intubate&ventilate'. Or to put humans infected with an infectious pulmonary disease (that is deadly to the old and frail) into care facilities for the eldery (happened too in Italy), an action that stupid that you do not have to study medicine to be able to predict the outcome.

[AtoB]

Also there's this:

• Coronavirus victims did not outnumber last year’s seasonal flu deaths.
• Figures were exaggerated by altering medical protocols.
• The confinement of the healthy and the forced use of masks have no scientific basis.
• The disease known as Covid-19 does not have a single infectious pattern, but a combination of them.