Coronavirus

[MagicManICT]

The constraints of what the government can do is the Grundgesetz, a translation of which is what I linked on Wikipedia.

My apologies. I may have overlooked it if it was an earlier post. Still, as good as Wikipedia can be about providing general information, it lacks a lot of the fine details that have been decided in courts. Germany as the governmental body and Constitution exists is still a relatively young thing without a lot of court challenges when compared to others.

As far as where the foundation of the national documents and philosophies come from, I quite understand that part of it... kind of had to over the years in some aspects with the forum here existing in Germany. Even without that, I've read a bit of history.

The problem is that there is no more rational discussion, mass media is pushing the official narrative basically unquestioned.

But there is rational discussion. It's just never has happened among "common folk." Even among more intellectual types, the discussion is terrible because the knowledge of specific disciplines can be so exact that outsiders can only nod their heads while trying to understand. To blame mass media is to turn them into an effigy that the mob will burn later for entertainment. It certainly doesn't help when you have certain media moguls pushing one theme throughout their media empire of hundreds of news outlets, which is often times utter denial or outright panic (depening on which media you look at).

Every government in the world is being shackled in debt.

I can't speak for every country in the world, but I'm sure they've been shackled in debt for as long as the current form of government has been in place... or at least the ones that issue government back treasuries and bonds... which is almost anyone that participates in a capitalist style market. (Just to note: found this Wikipedia article with a fast search--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt) For the US, we still have debts dating back to the American Revolution (or rebellion, depending on how you want to look at it). The amount of debt being added isn't as big an issue as the amount of money that may need to be tossed into circulation, which causes more problems than simple debt.

Which would mean corona being swine flu pandemic reloaded, a fake vaccacine 'advertisement' to line big pharmas pockets...

Can we stop with the conspiracy theories? you and jalpha should just find a cabin in the woods somewhere and live off the land like our ancestors did. Then you wouldn't have to worry about all the mistakes of society unless we completely destroy the ability for live to continue on this planet. Just to note: Mr. Henry David Thoreau had many positive things to say about such a lifestyle.

[Jalpha]

I hardly think the way the economy functions is a conspiracy or is unrelated to covid.

Can I make a "Where is the economy going after this shitshow" thread or will that be locked too?

Actually don't even worry about it. It's totally irrelevant to the average consumer anyway. Anyone who cares can look into it themselves. Also like has been said already this isn't the place for that discussion for a couple of reasons...

[Zentetsuken]

There are oodles of places online that one can use as a conspiracy and misinformation echo chamber, from facebook to 4chan and thousands of forums in between.
This will never be one of them.

I know it's not my thread but I vote that this one is locked so it can no longer be used as post fodder for people who have no desire to actually have a discussion, but are rather more interested in spreading their own dishonest opinions.

There's not much more to be discussed about corona until vaccines are available anyways.

[Jalpha]

I am enjoying posting my legitimate data on the ineffectiveness of masks and discussing the potential circumstances surrounding the outbreak.

If you don't like the conversation you are not obligated to participate.

Is there a country which has controlled the pandemic using masks? Genuinely curious and you seem to be the expert on the matter.

[MagicManICT]

I am enjoying posting my legitimate data on the ineffectiveness of masks and discussing the potential circumstances surrounding the outbreak.

Masks that aren't rated for medical use aren't highly effective, but even something covering the nose and mouth is better than nothing, even if it's just a bandana tied around your face outlaw style. Plenty of studies have shown this. Just because they don't meet that medical standard of 99.98% doesn't mean ineffective.

Is there a country which has controlled the pandemic using masks? Genuinely curious and you seem to be the expert on the matter.

I couldn't tell you because there has been no control study on it. Everyone that has gotten the pandemic under control has mandated face masks in public. I think minimizing your public exposure is much more effective as a means of control, and proper contact tracing for getting potentially exposed people to the doctor so they can get tested before they infect others. We've used these effectively for a few decades now as a means of controlling the spread of STIs. (Just change "don't go out if you dont have to" to "don't have sex," and it's the same thing, yes?) However, you have to get supplies to households, and there's only so many ways you can do this.

Can I make a "Where is the economy going after this shitshow" thread or will that be locked too?

I mean, we've had that discussion in the past, and this isn't the first shitshow to hit the global economy. Look how much WWI screwed everything up. The world still hasn't pulled out of the depression that started over a decade ago. Maybe we'll learn some lessons this time? I doubt it, and we'll be back to the status quo. Me? I welcome the coming apocalypse. We won't grow as a species without it. My only hope is that we don't annihilate ourselves in the process.

If you don't like the conversation you are not obligated to participate.

Quite. If anyone has an issue with how the forums are moderated, take it to Here.

[Zentetsuken]

I am enjoying posting my legitimate data on the ineffectiveness of masks and discussing the potential circumstances surrounding the outbreak.

that's so weird because I haven't seen a single piece of data about masks in this thread at all

you've only shared a bunch of random graphs expressing raw data and shared your personal opinions about what they might mean

maybe i'm missing something because I know you aren't silly enough to be implying that your personal belief on why a spike in a graph may have happened is considered legitimate data

[AtoB]

There's not much more to be discussed about corona until vaccines are available anyways.

Quite the opposite:
https://youtu.be/yiIVQoWYcrU?t=10885

This is from a group of lawyers who interview scientists from around the world about what is really going on about corona, to take legal action if needed. Some parts are in english, I linked to the interview with Prof. Dr Dolores Cahill, Ireland. Watch after eating, the other way around it won't taste that good anymore.

[Zentetsuken]

There's not much more to be discussed about corona until vaccines are available anyways.

Quite the opposite:
https://youtu.be/yiIVQoWYcrU?t=10885

This is from a group of lawyers who interview scientists from around the world about what is really going on about corona, to take legal action if needed. Some parts are in english, I linked to the interview with Prof. Dr Dolores Cahill, Ireland. Watch after eating, the other way around it won't taste that good anymore.

why on earth would anybody care about what a table of 5 random people have to say about global political happenings and why is it any more worthy of discussion than what some dopey bunch of talkshow hosts on morning tv have to say about it? Being a doctor or a lawyer doesn't magically make your opinion any more meaningful than jalphas

[Jalpha]

Just because they don't meet that medical standard of 99.98% doesn't mean ineffective.

Unless everyone is wearing them, and using them properly they are ineffective. Not totally useless, just not effective. Better than nothing is all I can think when it comes to masks. Just about as effective as coughing into your sleeve. I won't push a statement of do not wear masks. It matters more to me that people use them properly. The first step in this process seems to me to be knowing their limitations. Spread in the workplace is quickly becoming one of the major sources of transmission in Australia. Whatever the underlying cause, masks are not working.

I couldn't tell you because there has been no control study on it.

This is a big problem. There is too much reliance on organisations like the WHO, who are underfunded. The needed research on many things is not being done. You can take it a step further and see that the WHO is now primarily funded by China. Is it in the best interests of China to fund research they don't need. Research which could limit their competitive advantage on the global stage?

I mean, we've had that discussion in the past, and this isn't the first shitshow to hit the global economy. Look how much WWI screwed everything up. The world still hasn't pulled out of the depression that started over a decade ago. Maybe we'll learn some lessons this time? I doubt it, and we'll be back to the status quo.

There are a few tiers in society as I see it. The upper tiers do seem to be learning despite what I consider immense negligence in the last fifty years or so in particular. The lower tiers of society never learn. They are making the same mistakes every generation before them has made. Financially, morally and socially. I do not necessarily believe that this whole event was conspired intentionally to shackle the world in debt. It certainly does seem to be a case of opportunism though.

Me? I welcome the coming apocalypse. We won't grow as a species without it. My only hope is that we don't annihilate ourselves in the process.

I am hopeful it will not be that bad. We will see. Civil unrest is at an all time high, yet outside of the USA I doubt there is any danger of any real uprising. As soon as people are able they will go straight back to working, paying their taxes and loan repayments just like it was before. Only behind the scenes the balance of power will have shifted dramatically. I doubt real change is coming. Hopefully escape is still possible. We will see.

My respect for the big players in the game of life is growing. Something I never imagined would happen. Perhaps as the result of my increasing loss of respect for the lower tiers of society.

[AtoB]

There's not much more to be discussed about corona until vaccines are available anyways.

Quite the opposite:
https://youtu.be/yiIVQoWYcrU?t=10885

This is from a group of lawyers who interview scientists from around the world about what is really going on about corona, to take legal action if needed. Some parts are in english, I linked to the interview with Prof. Dr Dolores Cahill, Ireland. Watch after eating, the other way around it won't taste that good anymore.

why on earth would anybody care about what a table of 5 random people have to say about global political happenings and why is it any more worthy of discussion than what some dopey bunch of talkshow hosts on morning tv have to say about it? Being a doctor or a lawyer doesn't magically make your opinion any more meaningful than jalphas

Because here in my country we only hear a certain Christian Drosten who still fantasizes about millions of deaths looming (now in a 'second wave', where we did not even had a first one) and a certain Martin Wieler (a veterinarian, head of RKI) who just gave the statement that the 'measures must not be questioned, ever'. As one of these random people at the table is a certain Wolfgang Wodarg, who called bullshit on swine flue (where he was spot on with his argument that there can't be a pandemic when there is no increase in respiratory illnesses) but is these days not only completely ignored with making the same argument (and I checked: there is no such increase, again) but within a few days of raising his voice had been framed in and by the media as an insane and senile ex-politician (his medical expertise was not mentioned) with strange hair that must not be listened to.

When someone who worked as a pulmonologist and a public health officer and had been repeatedly right in the past about similar (or, as Drosten tried to instill panic back then too, possibly even related) incidents talks about the current pandemic... I listen. When that guy listens to and questions a professor of infectiology about the (alleged) most urgent problem of mankind... I listen. This does not make his or her opinion magically important, but it is an opportunity to obtain information that might allow me to make better informed decisions.