Coronavirus

[shubla]

Doesn't matter what I think. Your government is probably pumping at least as much into a vaccine as mine is.

There was some vaccine research center in Finland, but government decided to stop funding it some years ago. I think their plan is just to wait until somebody comes up with something and then pay overprice for it. Kind of like they do with the masks, gloves and other equipment right now

[Jalpha]

I have not been following many of the finer details of the pandemic. The whole situation is quite boring and obviously perpetuated by the plethora of stupid, ignorant and misled citizens of the world. The countries I know of who are working on a vaccine are Australia, China, the UK and the USA. I think the UK started human trials first but as stated above... I have much greater interests than this pandemic. I also have not heard much out of China regarding their development. Australia has just recently also begun human trials and I think this was not too far behind the USA.

Anyway my point is that these countries will presumably vaccinate their own populations first. After that other nations will bid on the vaccine they can afford. Whoever produces the most effective vaccine will probably make the most money.

I am also still not convinced that saving a lot of old people from dying is worth families being made jobless, poor and homeless. It seems a disproportionate amount of suffering and I like to put the young before the old. What I really want to know is this...

Young families are going to suffer so that old people and sick people can be saved. What are the sick and elderly going to do about that? Anything? I fukkin doubt it.

[MagicManICT]

obviously perpetuated by the plethora of stupid, ignorant and misled citizens of the world.

That would be an accurate summation.

The countries I know of who are working on a vaccine are Australia, China, the UK and the USA. I think the UK started human trials first but as stated above...

I'm not sure who started human trials first, but the first experimental trials started around the first of March in the US, by two different companies, I think, working in some form of cooperation... I didn't get too deep into the details on the article I read outside of the genetics/technology aspect as they are (were?) using a new technique that had been invented over the last decade or two (research into other recent major viruses like ebola and SARS) to get the first vaccine candidates pushed out in less than six weeks.

In other news, I spied an article in my local paper (not sure which news circuit it was on)--or would that be local new website? The allegation is that Russians are attempting to steal vaccine research. So... if you can't be first on the market with your own, at least be able to reproduce what other people have researched?

I am also still not convinced that saving a lot of old people from dying is worth families being made jobless, poor and homeless.

The loss of life is huge in terms of economic impact. Just on those numbers alone, a six month complete and total worldwide "quarantine event" probably would be worth it, as it's not just the elderly dying. That was just some early spotlights of some of the statistics coming out. The major factor is the still as of yet unknowns such as mutability of the virus (can we find a proper vaccine/treatment?) and long term health issues (strokes, organ failure, brain damage among others) that make it more than worth it. Another recently circulating news item is about the 8 year old that had a severe case, recovered, and now is dealing with a lifetime of disability that may be as bad as polio. How many millions or tens of millions of dollars will that one life be worth in terms of economic impact? Now mulitply that by the few hundred million that could possibly end up with some level of "loss of fuctions" from this virus.

For those that weren't old enough to know about it.... HIV was just "the gay disease" for several years until suddenly it wasn't and everyone was at risk of getting it. Don't treat this as "that elderly disease" as it already isn't that only six months after the first human infections.

[Jalpha]

There has not yet been any such incidents in Australia to my knowledge. I am going to suggest the possibility that the methods of treatment (including certain drugs) in the USA may be questionable. I would be very interested to know what "tier" of healthcare those suffering ongoing disability had at the time of their treatment. Then again overworked medical staff make mistakes and the situation in the USA is clearly more out of control to that in Australia... For now.

In any case I wholly support the way New Zealand handled the pandemic. Social isolation works.

On the american continent everybody seems to be obsessed with masks (the least effective method of preventing transmission out of the top four) so that they can continue working. Working themselves and those around them to death. Out of necessity or not I do not know. I am thankful my life is much more simple and easy.

[AtoB]

I am going to suggest the possibility that the methods of treatment (including certain drugs) in the USA may be questionable. I would be very interested to know what "tier" of healthcare those suffering ongoing disability had at the time of their treatment. Then again overworked medical staff make mistakes and the situation in the USA is clearly more out of control to that in Australia... For now.

Have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDsKdeFOmQ ?


In any case I wholly support the way New Zealand handled the pandemic. Social isolation works.[/quote]
In case you have enough room to get away from other people (which does not work that good in cities) and never ever want to meet anyone else... maybe.

[shubla]

But what is point of restrictions and social isolation?
Wait for 10 years and hope that the virus magically goes away?
Restrictions should be lifted and society returned to its normal functions ASAP.

[MagicManICT]

But what is point of restrictions and social isolation?
Wait for 10 years and hope that the virus magically goes away?
Restrictions should be lifted and society returned to its normal functions ASAP.

That's the kick in the pants, isn't it? The argument is two sides of the same coin--do we do what we've done in the past and develop herd immunity? Never actually worked for things like cholera, pneumonia, polio, small pox, etc etc etc. Or do we let modern science do what they do best? News is expected this next week from Moderna on their phase 3 trials (AstraZeneca is the other US company working on a vaccine; Moderna is the one working with Oxford researchers and the developer of the rapid DNA typing I mentioned earlier.) The problem here is that we have put ourselves in a position as a society where life is a well oiled machine and quite boring. Not much interesting happens unless we create the drama ourselves... you know, like wars and politics. Throw a wrench in that machine, and now what do we do?

[shubla]

But what is point of restrictions and social isolation?
Wait for 10 years and hope that the virus magically goes away?
Restrictions should be lifted and society returned to its normal functions ASAP.

That's the kick in the pants, isn't it? The argument is two sides of the same coin--do we do what we've done in the past and develop herd immunity? Never actually worked for things like cholera, pneumonia, polio, small pox, etc etc etc. Or do we let modern science do what they do best? News is expected this next week from Moderna on their phase 3 trials (AstraZeneca is the other US company working on a vaccine; Moderna is the one working with Oxford researchers and the developer of the rapid DNA typing I mentioned earlier.) The problem here is that we have put ourselves in a position as a society where life is a well oiled machine and quite boring. Not much interesting happens unless we create the drama ourselves... you know, like wars and politics. Throw a wrench in that machine, and now what do we do?

So soon some vaccine will come and it will fix all the things?
I doubt.
The vaccine will still take a long time to develop, and there are no guarantees about it being efficient whatsoever.
I think the only restrictions that should be done are ones that prevent healthcare from going over its capacity.
There is currently only 1 person in ICU in Finland, been from zero to one for weeks ! Still major restrictions.

I haven't followed the situation in the US, but that country is doomed to wither away within next few decades anyway except if they reform their society.

[MagicManICT]

According to what i've heard, the vaccine in development by Moderna is ready to pass phase 3 human trials, but official news will not be released until this week, and there will be a couple more rounds of testing before it's ready for mass production and worldwide distribution. I don't have much invested, but I at least watch some of the market news sites... everyone is drooling over that FDA announcement this coming week. So to sum it up if I were to make a meme out it, I'd do the "it's aliens" but be "it's a yes."

I think the only restrictions that should be done are ones that prevent healthcare from going over its capacity.
There is currently only 1 person in ICU in Finland, been from zero to one for weeks ! Still major restrictions.

I get travel restrictions, such as completely banning travel to and from the US right now. (Really! 20 years ago, the US would have been the ones doing this kind of travel restriction!!) If you have no cases, such as a few locations now, or means of making sure it doesn't get spread, or catching the spreading, then I'd say loosen up, but if the disease is still spreading unchecked, and you don't indicate anything here, then I'd say there's reasons for some restrictions in place. The alternative is to drop restrictions, and now you look like the US is looking because we got stupid and all but a few locations said "screw this! I want to party!!" Now the states that had very few active cases are some of the biggest hotspots in the country (like Kansas). (In some ways, I really do want to empathize with certain world leaders that play "hard politics" by enforcing policies with an iron fist, but we've all seen what roads that leads to.)

I haven't followed the situation in the US, but that country is doomed to wither away within next few decades anyway except if they reform their society.

That, sir, is a whole other discussion, and one I've been contemplating for nearly 30 years now. (And I do mean, let's take it to another thread.)

[shubla]

According to what i've heard, the vaccine in development by Moderna is ready to pass phase 3 human trials, but official news will not be released until this week, and there will be a couple more rounds of testing before it's ready for mass production and worldwide distribution. I don't have much invested, but I at least watch some of the market news sites... everyone is drooling over that FDA announcement this coming week. So to sum it up if I were to make a meme out it, I'd do the "it's aliens" but be "it's a yes."

I will think twice or maybe even thrice before taking it. I feel like so many of the decisions made so far with the virus are not rational but purely political.
I don't want to be injected with somerushed badly tested vaccine only because the government wants good ratings on handling of the epidemic.

(edit) Apparently the problems with swine flu vaccine only affected those vaccines that were used mostly in Finland & Sweden. But anyway, they rushed the testing and development of the new vaccine, resulting in pretty serious adverse effects, such as ten times more probability for narcolepsy etc. That doesn't give the Finnish government very good track record with these things. Yeah it for sure didn't affect THAT many people, but in general it tells that the vaccine was not tested enough or results of the tests were not considered seriously enough. In the end, the epidemic didn't really even strike Finland, and that was not because of the vaccines.