Why are people selling troll skulls for sub tokens???

[LadyGoo]

But I'm saying that both "solutions" - PayPal transactions and sub tokens are completely killing the trade system. You try to argue that sub tokens are good (or better than W7s trade system, which is not true), even say they're not real money trading. It's not true, they 100% are. What else is it? Aren't you defending them?

I am saying, that people should stop trying to cut their sore hand, instead of healing it. The current trade suffers from the travel being a pain in the ass (charterstones requiring crystals, travel weariness without any gilds for charisma and being too hard to remove), common items having low value since the currency sinks have been destroyed in the game. Remove the tokens, and factions won't need to trade at all. How many faction topics have you seen that would accept something else than tokens?

Sub. tokens trade is what makes the current subscription system, where you can play as much as you want with little restrictions possible. Remove them = be back to the old W8 sub. system when you would have to pay, or enjoy 14 hours per week gameplay and fall behind of anyone else.

[Pan_w_okularach]

Subtokens are not the reason why people don't trade so much anymore, it's because the less developed villages/hermits don't have anything to offer to the big villages. What fueled trade in w7 was unlimited char progression. Not only there was no such thing as too much food or too many curios, you also wanted the best curios in the game like pearls, flotsams, shocked frogs etc because compared to someone who didn't have it you could get liek four times the amount of lps in the same period of time. And now you can be lazy and study what's easy to get, it doesn't matter because you will catch up with everyone eventually. And once you reached the max stats you no longer need anything at all, except for the sub tokens of course.

[gummi]

Trading for tokens or trading through paypal has the exact same effect on the in-game economy, the only difference is that one method sends money to the player and one to the developers. That isn't "problem solved" that is just the lesser of two evils.

I'm not sure that trading for subtokens is the lesser of two evils. First, it creates a true conflict of interest for the developers (why fix problems when someone else is is helping you profit from them?) But second, and probably more importantly, it creates a "middle man" for their subscription sales. They now have big factions pretty much selling subscriptions on the side (to benefit the big factions, of course), which is a pretty ugly development from the standpoint of normal players. Much worse than botting when you really think about it. The big factions can measure how much money they make for the game in terms of subscriptions, but there is no way to measure how many potential players are lost due to trading/advancing/subscription practices that just seem smarmy.

Nobody should pay some other player real money to advance in a game, whether it's through tokens or paypal or whatever. It's just gross and exploitative and creates a bad culture. It's the stuff that happens "underground" all the time, but there is no reason to make it a mainstream practice-- it definitely will not contribute to growing a player base (of normal people, anyway!) IMO devs should keep in control of their own subscription sales and fix trade accessibility and supply/demand problems that are contributing to the worst trade scene in many worlds.

Also, +1 to everything Amanda said about not using real money to buy invisible things. Be smart, people.

[shubla]

Trading for tokens or trading through paypal has the exact same effect on the in-game economy, the only difference is that one method sends money to the player and one to the developers. That isn't "problem solved" that is just the lesser of two evils.

Are you dumb?
If people have to send money by paypal people dont do RMT as much as they'd do with subtokens.
In legacy trading with in game items has been viable and you didn't see "Selling 5 carrots for 50$ accepting paypal only" threads in legacy. Selling armor etc. for real money through paypal was not common at all compared to what it is now.

You can buy drugs if you want to, but not many people do it.
If you could buy drugs from supermarket and they'd be legal, more people would probably use them.

Now its same with HnH.

You could buy in game goods through paypal if you wanted to, but not many people did it.
Now you can buy in game goods from everywhere with real money (subtokens), and many people do it.

[shubla]

So sub tokens aren't real money trades?

Atleast some of money goes to devs this way.

RMT Was not such a big thing in legacy.
You didn't see forum filled with threads "selling anvil in virtual game for 20$"

Some of the forum threads had pts = $ rate note. If you didn't notice it that doesn't mean they didn't exist

Maybe. But there was still option to pay with usual stuff like flotsams, pearls or steel and other ingame goods. These days you dont really have those options.

[Amanda44]

@ gummi - You are right with everything you said, it's exactly what I mean in connection to not being the smart option in the long term and for raising the player base, this is supposedly a competitive game ... instead we are being asked to pay to keep players at the top, lol.

The problem is, and it happens everywhere in rl too, certain ppl close their eyes to the bigger picture because it suits them best to look at the smaller one, what they often fail to realise is it will eventually affect them too.

[LadyGoo]

Maybe. But there was still option to pay with usual stuff like flotsams, pearls or steel and other ingame goods. These days you dont really have those options.

Have you read what people been saying previously? We do not need your flotsams, pearls or anything else. Except, maybe, troll sculls. I have asked you "what can you really offer to me?" and you've ignored the question. Fine, remove the tokens, it won't make factions trade with people. You have to understand that current world is no way similar to legacy and you won't have the same conditions.

@both Amanda and gummi, you guys have no idea about what is going in the trade realm. Yet you claim that we lose some playerbase because some people can buy 20 q higher items than other players, who buy stuff from markets. There are many people who were thanking me for keeping the market because it has actually helped them to advance. I see so many people dramatizing and comparing tokens to drugs while ignoring the actual reasons of the problem.
P.S. The game is also virtual and not real. Following your logic no-one should buy it because it is not real!

[gummi]

P.S. The game is also virtual and not real. Following your logic no-one should buy it because it is not real!

The time you spend entertained by a game and the container you play it in is very much real. I wouldn't hang out in a bar or coffee shop without buying a drink at some point.

Nobody in this thread is complaining about paying to play their own game. We're just complaining about paying to play YOUR game xp

[MadNomad]

The game is also virtual and not real. Following your logic no-one should buy it because it is not real!

Please stop reversing attention - virtual things have a lot lower value and are not worth real money until u get em in a lot bigger quantities than now.

[LadyGoo]

No-one is forcing you to pay the money. If you don't like the fact, that you cannot get 20 q higher items without doing some extra negotiations with the traders and decide to go on forums to complain about it - it's your own problem.
Provide an elegant solution to the issue, instead of complaining about it and wearing a white coat of fake morality... or let people to decide themselves what they want to do.