Scammed of 4 Shop Hats

[Aceb]

I don't think anyone was punished by admin intervention. The developers were kind and treated one of their patrons with kindness. I also don't believe that hats were original put in the game so that people could steal or plunder them from others, which probably means they weren't meant to be tricked out of them by "faking" losing ownership. The person who scammed Wonderful could not lose anything in this trade, it wasn't like a bandy or if he was ko'd someone could take the hat he had.

I gave you the hats back. Thank you for supporting the game.

I took this to mean they were taken from the criminal and given back to the original owner, which I would call punishment. If I risked my character by stealing my nighbor's anvil, and an admin give it back to him I'd feel cheated. Risking your reputation(more valuable than a character) to steal a hat is fairly similar, I'd say.

If this is incorrect, and new hats were generated without removing the stolen hats from the thief's account I withdraw my comments

Yeah but You generally mix in-game items that can be produced and admins don't mind if someone's else get theft, with store hats items, that You buy for real money and have only cosmetic value and can't be made other way than spending money on shop. Don't mix stupid anvils with hats pal.

[SnuggleSnail]

If hats are an allowed currency in game it seems counterintuitive to treat them differently to any other currency.
If somebody trades their hat for an anvil, then somebody scams them of their anvil, isn't that the same thing with extra steps? Would the anvil be returned? The victim functionally paid for it with real money.
What about paintings made with Skatchbook Pages?
What about the LP/FEPs gained from subscriptions?
Is using blackmail (with in game threat, not RL ones) to get somebody to give you their hats allowed?

If hat theft isn't allowed, and admins will return hats - shouldn't this be heavily advertised? I'm certain somebody was too embarrassed to admit their hat had been scammed at some point, and as a result didn't have it refunded/removed from the thief's account.

This seems like an inconsistent application of rules, and I can't seem to find the distinction you do.

[Aceb]

If hats are an allowed currency in game it seems counterintuitive to treat them differently to any other currency.
If somebody trades their hat for an anvil, then somebody scams them of their anvil, isn't that the same thing with extra steps? Would the anvil be returned? The victim functionally paid for it with real money.
What about paintings made with Skatchbook Pages?
What about the LP/FEPs gained from subscriptions?
Is using blackmail (with in game threat, not RL ones) to get somebody to give you their hats allowed?

If hat theft isn't allowed, and admins will return hats - shouldn't this be heavily advertised? I'm certain somebody was too embarrassed to admit their hat had been scammed at some point, and as a result didn't have it refunded/removed from the thief's account.

This seems like an inconsistent application of rules, and I can't seem to find the distinction you do.

If You trade a hat for in-game goods, and lost them afterwards, no one will care. (Basically, the moment You trade a hat for in game goods, no one will care what will happen next)
If You agree to trade hats for hats and scam happens, it will upset everyone and will want the name of the guy so they can avoid them.
I've noticed same applies to tokens but it upset a little less people than hats, but still, people will want the name of scammer.

Rest You said is something different. Skektchpages are somewhat cheap and not unique.

[shubla]

I gave you the hats back. Thank you for supporting the game.

Soon all people will come to demand refunds because they were scammed! This is only the beginning!

And Here I wasn't sure if You can get more boring...


Probably they can track hats, so scams won't pass. Jorb is a good man.

I think that it is a real problem that should be addressed.
Even if they had a way to track hats, it would take some effort to be constantly giving them back.

[MagicManICT]

I don't know what the internal details were of the trade (as in server data). I don't have access to such information. I'd say that there was something that caught their attention that could probably be fixed.... or else jorb is just getting to be a softy in his old age?

I think I'm in agreement that hats should be treated like everything else. If you want to risk trading them, use a trusted third party to be the broker or only trade with trusted trade partners.

BUT!! In an world of anonymous avatars, can anyone be truly trusted*? Some people are very transparent between their forum name and in-game avatar, and some people even put their game up with their real selves via Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Except you don't know if that is their real self there or not because you don't actually know them. It could be just another avatar. I think we had this discussion elsewhere about "real value" of things like hats in that they have none--they're all owned by Seatribe and are subject to complete loss to the account holder should the servers be shut down permanently or other catastrophic loss that can't be recovered from. IMO, treat players and in-game property this way and don't make a fool of yourself.

*There's more than a few of these stories where a "trusted" 3rd party or even trusted trade partner screws the whole system over and pisses the entire gaming world off... of course it's not hard to believe because people have done it for as long as trade has existed!!

[shubla]

I don't know what the internal details were of the trade (as in server data). I don't have access to such information. I'd say that there was something that caught their attention that could probably be fixed.... or else jorb is just getting to be a softy in his old age?

The main point that I have is that it will take a lot of devs time if things like these start to pop up more frequently, now that people know that devs might give them new stuff if they get scammed, they are encouraged to make threads like these.

[azrid]

We have a community that values our current trade ethics.
I like that devs care about this too.

Expose the scammer.

[Flyrella]

That might not be a bad idea, but in the meantime, you could have confirmed that you were given the hat by picking it up and seeing whether it vanished.

For trading, could you pls modify the bandy option? And allow hats to be traded through bandy the same way as with transferring ownership (but maybe with some additional message as a reminder).
For example somerhing like that (the bandy could be larger of course)
[img]bandy.png[/img]
So, the left side is your and the right side is of the opponent. You can place items on your side and the opponent can see them, and the opposite. When you both placed the items, you can click the tick meaning that you agree to exchange. And the trade occurs when both clicked the ticks. There should be some additional things:
1. After you placed items, there should be a delay of 3-5 seconds before you are able to click the tick
2. When the opponent clicked the tick, his field turns green for you, same for him. It indicates that if you click your tick, the trade will happen.
3. If the opponent removes some items or adds, the field should return from the green stage to normal meaning that he would have to click the tick again. And he can only click the tick after 3-5 sec delay (this is to prevent scamming when you see the item and ready to click, but it was quickly removed by the opponent and you accidentally exchange your item for nothing).

[Aceb]

[...]

Quoted from loftar post somewhere else:

Postby loftar
To begin with, the ability to scam others in trade is of course intended. That being said, though, I don't see what the scammer would have to gain from closing the window and letting it scatter, rathen than simply just snagging everything in it without closing it. Doesn't seem to be any obvious difference to me, except he now has to pick the stuff off the ground.

But yeah I guess it's about normal way of trading, not hats.

[Flyrella]

[...]

Quoted from loftar post somewhere else:

Postby loftar
To begin with, the ability to scam others in trade is of course intended. That being said, though, I don't see what the scammer would have to gain from closing the window and letting it scatter, rathen than simply just snagging everything in it without closing it. Doesn't seem to be any obvious difference to me, except he now has to pick the stuff off the ground.

But yeah I guess it's about normal way of trading, not hats.

oh no. when you close the bandy, your items should stay in your inventory
And maybe there should be a special bandy like described for paid items only (hats, tokens, sketchbooks)