The Ghost of Christmas Future, II

[burgingham]

Well its the only option as you said. For a game that is more set in the medieval period than anything else we are lacking medieval structures.

Then again, it's not as if every single peasant surrounded his land with a palisade, either.

If you imagine what kept people from doing in the past of our world what they do in HnH, you will end up with arguments touching society, culture, morals and the like though and not necessarily get hard solutions in terms of game mechanics.

So far HnH has proven that it is kinda of impossible to impose such "soft" standards on people in an online game, as they do not really need to fear any consequences if they do not follow a certain kind of code. Even permadeath has only done so much to play checks and balances. Not even considering the absence of actual permadeath these days with the curio system in place, as that seems to lead to a whole other debate.

[Xcom]

Then again, it's not as if every single peasant surrounded his land with a palisade, either.

that is true, but i'm sure they would have been reasonably capable of defending their land.

The peasants wouldn't and if there was an actual ingame reason unlike the real life reason of keeping the peasants alive pvpers wouldn't kill them either. But there isn't a single reason other then sympathy so they do.

[zacty]

Then again, it's not as if every single peasant surrounded his land with a palisade, either.

that is true, but i'm sure they would have been reasonably capable of defending their land.

The peasants wouldn't and if there was an actual ingame reason unlike the real life reason of keeping the peasants alive pvpers wouldn't kill them either. But there isn't a single reason other then sympathy so they do.

i don't care who you are, what you're wearing, or how experienced you are, if i stab you in the face with a sword, it is going to hurt you. if you have 4 people attacking you, it doesnt matter what you have, they have a reasonable chance of beating you, the same should be at least moderately true here too.

maybe im just a carebear, but i dont think that most people should be at the mercy of random individual players.

[loftar]

So far HnH has proven that it is kinda of impossible to impose such "soft" standards on people in an online game, as they do not really need to fear any consequences if they do not follow a certain kind of code.

To be fair, I think there is a case to be made for the sometimes-made argument that other players in one's area is too much of a liability and too little of a benefit to keep around. If there were more real benefits to having Farmville-players around oneself and they presented less of a liability, I think it would be more reasonable to expect at least some of the more combat-oriented people in the area to protect them.

[Jackard]

I detest them but they're integral to the game as it's currently designed. What's a reasonable alternative?

For the record, I very much approve of this discussion. If there is a reasonable alternative to the ugly walled-in compounds of current Haven, I'd very much like to hear it.

regarding climbing cliffs, how does the topography of the new version work? is it voxels or something?

can there be "stronghold crusader" type walls that people walk on with ladders and stairs?

[Potjeh]

To be fair, I think there is a case to be made for the sometimes-made argument that other players in one's area is too much of a liability and too little of a benefit to keep around. If there were more real benefits to having Farmville-players around oneself and they presented less of a liability, I think it would be more reasonable to expect at least some of the more combat-oriented people in the area to protect them.

YES! You are seeing the light Have you considered any concrete measures for Haven 2.0, like for example civilization rating giving bonuses to various industries, or a way for making a relatively safe local marketplace?

[loftar]

regarding climbing cliffs, how does the topography of the new version work? is it voxels or something?

No, the map is still 2.5D with one layer where each "vertex" has height information, and cliffs "arise" due to the height difference between two tiles being over a certain threshold.

can there be "stronghold crusader" type walls that people walk on with ladders and stairs?

I ambition to enable that sooner or later (depending on other priorities), but it's not going to be possible initially.

Have you considered any concrete measures for Haven 2.0

There aren't much in terms of concrete mechanics yet (though villages will likely work better than previously), but the terms I tend to think in revolve around mechanics that try to correspond to "active playing" (the term being intentionally loosely defined) of a character being rewarded in various ways. I imagine that if even nub characters, through such rewards, are able to bring to the world valuable items that can bring benefits to more advanced characters (or advanced characters bringing rewards to other, differently profiled, advanced characters), that will bring more reward to keeping them around.

YES! You are seeing the light :D

I don't think I've ever disagreed. :)

[burgingham]

So far HnH has proven that it is kinda of impossible to impose such "soft" standards on people in an online game, as they do not really need to fear any consequences if they do not follow a certain kind of code.

To be fair, I think there is a case to be made for the sometimes-made argument that other players in one's area is too much of a liability and too little of a benefit to keep around. If there were more real benefits to having Farmville-players around oneself and they presented less of a liability, I think it would be more reasonable to expect at least some of the more combat-oriented people in the area to protect them.

Just for the record, that kind of symbiosis existed - at least to some extent - in worlds 2 and 3. Not sure wether the more in depth combat system or the curio system got rid of that (or the bots did...).

[loftar]

Well yes, I do sometimes look with some nostalgia upon the Pax Pandemonica. :)

^^

[burgingham]

I did not want to be an advocate for the old systems by the way. They had their problems too...severe ones.