The Ghost of Christmas Future

[BWithey]

I didn't play in 3 years or so, but i still regularly check for news on the development. When the "new H&H" comes, i'll definitely come back and would gladly pay for it, together with my girlfriend. Keep up the good work, i'm really looking forward to it

^^ This.

I would pay to play Haven 2.0 if they had a good "Around the Clock" playerbase. I Honestly couldn't think of a more fun game. Especially if the online players were mostly humans instead of bots, and were not afraid to PK.

I mostly agree with this.. Except the last statement.

I'm all good with PK being a thing, I wouldn't keep playing if I wasn't. But what I'd really like to see is resources put on the map in such a way that there is actually a resource struggle going on. Something to encourage trading, making it so one community/village could not, all on it's own, accomplish everything. I'd be more interested in a reason to trade (metal is insufficient in it's current incarnation, the shit is everywhere), quality is insufficient (there's a point where it simply ceases to matter). What I want to see is the removal of teleportation as a viable option, biome specific crops and resources, and methods of building trade roads and bridges.

THEN I'd want to see folk playing bandits and raiders, communities forged hard enough to have road guards, people to respond to these situations, and no way to make oneself utterly immune to retribution. That, and a cap on character development to eliminate the option of uber-characters, do-everything characters, and bare-fisted brick breakers.

[Tonkyhonk]

i just dont understand why people often ask for "forced-interaction-by-system" with others.
id like it as free as possible so that player can actually choose to interact or not to have fun.
e.g. mine was very limited till w3 and most later starters had to trade for metals which made basically everyone complain, as a result, it got changed and everyone can access to one. but now some people are asking for the other way around once again?

[banok]

Hey loftar, I remember you saying in regards to salem development that it might be counter productive to bring in more developers because you'd have to spend so much time getting them up to speed, or something along those lines.

I hope you are taking that into consideration when rebuilding haven, because I worry about you guys. This is your 3rd and unfinished mmo project, and you are planning to develop salem and this with just 2 of you? I would really like to see you finish one of these games

[ydex]

Hey loftar, I remember you saying in regards to salem development that it might be counter productive to bring in more developers because you'd have to spend so much time getting them up to speed, or something along those lines.

I hope you are taking that into consideration when rebuilding haven, because I worry about you guys. This is your 3rd and unfinished mmo project, and you are planning to develop salem and this with just 2 of you? I would really like to see you finish one of these games

Im inclined to disagree, one of the things i like most about haven is that it's constantly worked and reworked. if it where finnished and all we would get would be some cosmetic stuff to buy in a shop etc (u know those types of mmo) then I for one wouldn't play as much, nor for such an extended period as i now have (3-4 years?). I really like that there is always a feeling of that the devs can just change their minds and start over on core mechanics (whilst ofc keeping in touch with the purpose and feeling of the game).

[MagicManICT]

I hope you are taking that into consideration when rebuilding haven, because I worry about you guys. This is your 3rd and unfinished mmo project, and you are planning to develop salem and this with just 2 of you? I would really like to see you finish one of these games

I think you misunderstand. This is replacing the current Haven. It's Haven, but with new graphics, server engine, and improved client.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

i just dont understand why people often ask for "forced-interaction-by-system" with others.
id like it as free as possible so that player can actually choose to interact or not to have fun.
e.g. mine was very limited till w3 and most later starters had to trade for metals which made basically everyone complain, as a result, it got changed and everyone can access to one. but now some people are asking for the other way around once again?

I for one signed on to play an MMO, Massively Multiplayer. I was promised a wilderness survival game. Building of villages and interaction and..

All I'm asking is that actually be delivered on, where interaction between building civilizations creates a reason to not slaughter each other meaninglessly.

You want to play a single-player game, there's lots of other options. I'm also ok with the hermit lifestyle, I tend to enjoy it myself. But I don't expect to reach the same level of tech as those working together.

I was one of those late starters, and having to trade with those who already had those resources was one of the joys of the game, until we ultimately, through careful politics, managed to acquire metal of our own. It had value, when everyone can get it, it's worthless... Just like everything else in the game that isn't location based value.

The fact that with slow and careful effort, you can reach the high qualities of crops, without the use of high quality soil, only further enforces this.

Nothing has value, because ultimately every independent community, given sufficient time, can reach the highest levels of quality.

Not really a valid play style for long term economic and political intrigue. Everything just boils down to 'who's got the meanest brick-breaker' dick-waving.

[Tonkyhonk]

no no, its not the "forced" interaction that mmo needs, but the players will.
having benefits by grouping up is nice, having diversity is nice too, but what is so good about being "forced" to interact with others only for certain resources the system limits, which mostly causes "the strong eats all the weak", so as not to let new players/later starting players experience what the game can offer?

btw, in most mmo, it is the players that are the most valuable neither items nor resources, not even chars that can be botted up easily.

[Amanda44]

This is part of a pm conversation I was having with someone and it fits perfectly here. There are so many misconceptions about playing a hermit, it doesn't have to mean seclusion unless thats what you desire and I also think the community gets a bad rep mainly due to what appears on the forums it's not quite so cut-throat in-game. Anyway, for what it's worth here is part of my reply:

The Community is not as bad as the forum would suggest, lol, in-game there is much helping of each other and there are many of us who play a part in that, myself, Em and many small towns and hermitages. There are lots of players around who don't need recognition on the forums but make the world a safer, friendlier environment for everyone.

The game is a pvp perma death game and that is why we all play it, the baddies are needed and should obviously be there, they are part of what makes the community and the part that draws others together. Behind the majority of 'bad' players is a normal resonable person, they just choose to play that style because it's more exciting, particularly for the youngsters.

I think people tend to underestimate hermitages, we are not all small and insignificant. Through trading and travelling our areas we make alliances and friends all over the world in all different factions, towns and villages, to not give hermitages an equal standing is extremely shortsighted.

I'd also like to add - raising quality will take longer as a hermit, naturally, you are having to do it all yourself but it is possible to reach high standards just the same.

And finally, - it's not possible for everyone to be able to play in a village. I've hermitted for three worlds now and I would love to either be part of a village or have my own villagers but rl makes it impossible, I don't have enough hrs in-game and sometimes i'm absent for days at a time, this wouldn't be fair on a village when I am unable to pull my wieght and not fair on villagers when I am not around consistently to encourage growth and direction. This shouldn't mean i'm then excluded from a cool game that I enjoy, there is a place for both types of players and all those imbetween.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

no no, its not the "forced" interaction that mmo needs, but the players will.
having benefits by grouping up is nice, having diversity is nice too, but what is so good about being "forced" to interact with others only for certain resources the system limits

The 'MMO' aspect of 'MMO'? Giving the world a diversified feel? Making there be a point to building your home 'here' instead of 'there' for reasons other than safety or political reasons? Giving us an actual reason to negotiate trades or fight over territory that has some actual value, instead of everything being the same?

We've seen some elements of this already, with people claiming mountains and swamps and such. Frankly, I think the personal claim system is still more than a little broken (though it *IS* much improved). There should be a maximum amount of land an individual can claim that isn't LP based, and anything over that would require a village totem.

And for gods sake, try to find a way to murder the entire CONCEPT of Alts. >.< Fekking things are abused like a red-headed step child.

which mostly causes "the strong eats all the weak", so as not to let new players/later starting players experience what the game can offer?

You mean the history of civilization as we know it? Yeah.. That was kinda the point. Again, I didn't have this issue, canny politicking and open venues of trade make this scenario less likely instead of more likely. Removing teleportation again makes this less likely, raiders are less likely to go far far afield when there's nowhere safe to run back to at a moments notice. They will be forced to face their enemies toe-to-toe.. Running into the hearth is no longer an option, and if the hearth is no longer your 'safe haven', if you can be summoned wherever you logged out for the night?

So much the better.

btw, in most mmo, it is the players that are the most valuable neither items nor resources, not even chars that can be botted up easily.

That's because in most MMO's resources of all kinds are neigh on infinite, such is not the case here. Resources are the backbone of civilization and culture, so should it be here.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

And finally, - it's not possible for everyone to be able to play in a village. I've hermitted for three worlds now and I would love to either be part of a village or have my own villagers but rl makes it impossible, I don't have enough hrs in-game and sometimes i'm absent for days at a time, this wouldn't be fair on a village when I am unable to pull my wieght and not fair on villagers when I am not around consistently to encourage growth and direction. This shouldn't mean i'm then excluded from a cool game that I enjoy, there is a place for both types of players and all those imbetween.

Anyone who would exclude you based on the limited amount of assistance you're able to give is being remarkably short-sighted. One of the villages I put together (way back in World 3) was entirely based on the concept of individuals living in a community, while being able to pursue their own goals at their own pace. It wasn't a 'village' in the way most villages are in this game, it was a location of people living in proximity together with a ruling body that took care of any issues they couldn't take care of themselves.

There was no 'central village' to contribute to, other than certain civic projects that everyone pitched in on (Such as our weekly road-building gather). We had appointed guards, a lawspeaker, and another two villages we swore fealty to. Beyond that, everyone functioned as individuals, just like in a real community, a real city. Our time was our own, we traded what we had, both with each other and with other villages.

Not being able to play often does NOT exclude you from being part of a community.