The Ghost of Christmas Future

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby jordancoles » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:39 am

Tonkyhonk wrote:
jordancoles wrote:i have to win every aspect of the game to be playing this.

nobody is forcing you to play your way to the point of requiring bots. you are playing "who can utilize bots to the highest effects" or "who can exploit to the fullest" game, which is not exactly what devs intended to create here, im afraid.

What's that? The devs don't want people to play their game and to find things ingame that will KEEP them playing? Oh lawd, I'm afraid that sounds insane. Everyone has their own playstyles and things that they enjoy. If you enjoy being an elitist, then there is no reason for the devs to have a problem with that. Aside from crashing the server / stealing accounts, etc.

Bottom line is that some of the core game mechanics are very time consuming and tedious for all types of players. Some choose to bot it and spend their time on the other things that they enjoy, some choose to do it manually.
If the devs are so opposed to elitist groups, then the vast majority of the active playerbase should be removed along with basically every player interested in pvp.
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby Tonkyhonk » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:45 am

jordancoles wrote:What's that? The devs don't want people to play their game and to find things ingame that will KEEP them playing? Oh lawd, I'm afraid that sounds insane. Everyone has their own playstyles and things that they enjoy. If you enjoy being an elitist, then there is no reason for the devs to have a problem with that. Aside from crashing the server / stealing accounts, etc.

oh lawd, you actually believe devs want you to bot the way up? you think "botting" is a playstyle? seriously?
there is nothing wrong being/wanting to be an elitist, but "an elite needs botting" doesnt make sense to me and it shouldnt unless this game was actually made that way.

btw, many ppl have left because of botters. i find nothing wrong in botters leaving this game to leave it for the human players no matter how low the population gets.
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby jordancoles » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:49 am

Potjeh wrote:IMO the problem is that too much playtime goes into preparing to do things (ie building combat characters) and too little into actually doing them (ie fighting). If preparation time is beyond what people consider fun, they will bot.

This is basically the best summary of bots so far
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby Vaku » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:06 am

LadyV wrote:
Vaku wrote:Image


Are you in any of those areas?


Vaku wrote:This was written very hastily, and can be much more developed when I've the time, but I feel it helps to touch the surface of the current problems that face HnH gameplay, including the botting incentive.


Vaku wrote:You can expect a proper Critique thread later, but for now, I'll just respond to the criticism that the content of my previous post received.


Your question above demonstrates why I believe you're not analyzing thoroughly enough. Those statements indicate very clearly that this idea, as I am presenting it, it is not yet ready for the Critique & Ideas subforum. Presenting a sloppy idea in that sub forum is not something I want to do, even moreso when a warning like this exists. Obviously, I'm touching ground on a topic, that like this game, is not, nor should be, or has been developed in a vacuum. Like seriously, there's a whole thread on Jorb's inspirations that help to demonstrate J&L don't develop in a vacuum.

LadyV wrote:Now since this is an announcement thread I am done commenting further on this.


Please stay if you have something more to add to the dialogue, and critique on these posts and so forth. Don't allow my responses to discourage you from commenting further.

Nevertheless, attacking me about my methodologies, declaring arrogance and so forth, wouldn't be advised, because that has little to do with the topic of the thread. Instead, discuss your wild fantasies for what you want for Christmas! After all, this is ;) a Christmas Future, a future wherein, like what the title alludes to, has the capacity to change (and most surely will).
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby MagicManICT » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:01 am

LadyV wrote:I did. Still no grudge. What did you over analyze? If you can not tell then you are very far removed from things. This may be Jorb and Loftar's social experiment but it is not yours. State an opinion yes. Reply to a developer, yes. Lecture people on definition of words and to roll out your proposed solutions, no. That is the arrogance I refered.


One of the first principles of philosophical debate it to make sure everyone is using the same terms in the same way. I'm not going to say Vaku was or was not being polite when he posted earlier. It's not my place to judge that (as I have a hard enough time reading what people post on the Internet accurately), but I think he's on the right track when this is an international forum with many members not speaking English natively (or even all that well). A lot of things can get lost in translation.

I'm not sure the right subject is being discussed at this point, though. Things such as farming should be group efforts. With a group of a dozen people doing the farming and feeding the animals, what can take hours for one person (with a bot) can be done in 30 minutes. However, due to the rules of the game, it can't be a group thing unless you're willing to grind out a farmer character just to keep from softcapping the crops. Again, that comes back to grinding to make a ton of curios to get that 200, 300, 400 (and up) farming skill on an alt you are only going to use for one thing (especially if you're full industry and just mine and smith).

To note, I had a pretty solid farm running in w5 before the reset. I had crops around 100 and metals in the 60s and 70s as a hermit without doing any trading. By no means is that impressive, but I have never touched a bot and have been known to play pretty erratically.
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby Amanda44 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:28 am

Vaku wrote:
What would allow for all of that to be Farmed, the Top-Q seeds to be kept, and the process to be sustained for 3 years without bots, would be to have reliable social interaction.

That being said, there is a lack of incentive for socialization. The idea being, it is not wholesomely obvious that any one activity cannot be completed in a timely fashion by one player. A testament to this would be to identify that a hermit will attempt to build a mansion by themselves, and will capitulate to creating alts to supplement human interaction.



That you continue to misrepresent hermits at every given oppertunity and insist the only way to go is through a village or faction system infuriates me!

I've never used bots, have only two alts to my village - one nature, one industry, oh and a key alt I never play, lol - my alts in no way supplement human interaction, esp considering I can only run one client at a time. :lol:

I have 40/50 in my kin list, of which two are obviously mine - so I clearly interact, I just don't have villagers.
At least half of those are either other hermits or small groups of players - so they clearly interact too - out of them, one hermit uses tons of alts, I think it was 12 at last count, lol and one group of 3 players have two bots, one for farming and one for mining. All the rest have no bots and one-to-three alts.

Last world I did exactly the same as I do now - here are some pics to show you just what a hermit can achieve on their own without bots or armies of alts or villagers! And yet still interact with other players, set up newb villages and produce good quality gear aside from trading - with my own bare hands, lol.

Image
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I eventually got all of these up considerably higher but forgot to take s/shots at the end of the world except of my stats, my chickens ended up at 250q+ my trees at around 165q and all crops in excess of 240q+.
Whilst this isn't faction quality it is still something to be proud of as a hermit. Well, I think so anyway.

(Actually i've just got out of hospital and the painkillers have worn off, lol, i'm in quite some discomfort so I'm afraid I have to stop mid-post - i'm sorry, but you get my drift) -

The only other thing I really wanted to add is that a lot of people hermit because they don't want to specialize or be told what to do, or want to plan their own layout and experience all the game has to offer - or simply like a bit of peace and quiet now and again!

I do have other alts in game but they have their own bases or are wilderness chars, simply for when I want to play but need some time to myself.

Your insistance on telling people how to play is indeed arrogance when you are refusing to listen to what people who have been here longer and with more experience are telling you.
And i don't mean me.

I have to go ........... :(
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby Lord_of_War » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:35 am

Why is minimap not hid?
That is very nice quality for a hermit but also I agree running everything yourself and being able to keep up is quite taxing. I used to be a hermit and it was a tremendous amount of time. A few raids later I quit and joined a village.
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby MagicManICT » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:29 am

Lord_of_War wrote:Why is minimap not hid?


Amanda44 wrote:Last world
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby NOOBY93 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:34 am

MagicManICT wrote:
Lord_of_War wrote:Why is minimap not hid?


Amanda44 wrote:Last world

Hes a bot...
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Re: The Ghost of Christmas Future

Postby TeckXKnight » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:52 am

He's not a bot. =)
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