Game Development: Weißbier und Käse.

[killerdynamo]

I hate to complain (although I will propose a couple of solutions), but I really think that giving FEP (especially STR) with a drink just isn't going to work the way it's set up. Here's how I think it'll go down.

(hmm, this turned into a bit of a wall, if you read the first line of each section you should get a good idea of what I'm talking about)

Phase 1, the initial rush
-many people, IE those that don't care about balance, already have plenty of HHP (which will be most people), and realize the power of beer, are going to make several casks of beer (wheat is so easy to get that they'll be able to)
-drink ALL of it, get 2 strength at the cost of 5 HHP as many times as they are comfortable.
-their strength jumps and their HHP plummets.

The fun part with Phase 1 is that the people that already have higher stats are the ones that can afford to increase their strength this way the most.
and new player with 10s (if they can get beer) would only be able to do it 2-5 times (so 4-10 str gain), someone with 150 str and 100 con would probably feel comfortable doing it 20 or more times for 40 strength.

Phase 2, linear strength/charisma growth
-for the rest of time, anyone can get 2 strength in the amount of time it takes to regain 5 HHP, no matter how high your stats already are IN ADDITION TO what they already get from regular eating.

I don't mind Phase 1 so much, because it'll only really happen once then people wont have enough HHP to do it anymore (they could wait a long long time and do it all at once again, but that really just lets them make up for all of the time they weren't drinking in between). But, Phase 2 does not seem in line with the current system of diminishing returns on stat growth because you can always drink as much beer / wine as you need to get the event.

Solutions:
-give us a thirst meter that fills, then let us drink more things (milk gives one CON, water gives nothing, maybe make us a juicer so we can make carrot juice and apple juice/cider) so that people can't drink infinite beer whenever they get their hands on it (and don't kid yourself, supplies will be close enough to infinite that it makes no difference)
-something else that limits how much we can drink at a time
-make the 'pain' event do damage based on your highest stat, something like 1/4 of your highest stat in HHP damage instead of a static 5, this way in Phase 2 you have to wait longer to get your HHP back if you're one of the super players and less time if your new.

[sami1337]

you don't get 2 str. You get 2 FEP points. if you have 100 con you will need 30 sips with a 60% chance of success. (which by the way isn't much considering you can hunt a bear as well).

[killerdynamo]

I realize that it's 2 FEP, but you drink as much as you want at a time, so you drink enough beer to get 3 food events, on average 2 of them will be strength, one will be pain.
one cask of beer is 3000 FEP total, 1000 of which is bad FEP, so thats a little less than 30 events if you already have 100 strength

The difference between drinking beer and hunting bears is that you need to be hungry to eat the bear, you don't need to be hungry to drink beer you just drink until you feel like stopping.

I often feel like the important value of food isn't how much FEP it gives you at a time, but the efficiency of FEP/hunger used (I stopped eating raisin butter muffins because just eating raisins is twice as efficient), beer uses 0 hunger, so it's efficiency is infinite

[Rift]

...while i agree it seems excessive when you say it like that.. on the other hand.. thats 100L of beer you just drank.
..100 freaken litres. It really doesn't sound that easy to make 100L of it... Try it and tell me how long it takes you.

[Yolan]

We also need another way of aquiring skills, really; right now, it's a bit too easy to do everything (which might also be related to the fact that "everything" isn't too much yet, of course).

Yeah, a friend of mine has argued this through with me, and I really think individual skills should have their own % bar, which is improved by effort, and that you need to get pretty good at key skills in order to buy the next one. A master armor smith, for example, could make armor which has more hit points in it. A master brewer, beer that gives you more FEPs. The more we can improve the benefits of specialisation, (without making the hermit life style impossible), the better it is for trade.

[killerdynamo]

...while i agree it seems excessive when you say it like that.. on the other hand.. thats 100L of beer you just drank.
..100 freaken litres. It really doesn't sound that easy to make 100L of it... Try it and tell me how long it takes you.

I'll give you that (a little bit at least, the main ingredient is still wheat so...) but really if you don't want to spend a lot of time making a ton of beer at first, just skip to Phase 2 of my first post. One batch of wort is still 150 FEP and that's real easy to make, you just have to wait a couple days while it sits in the cask. I don't think anyone will have problems making enough beer to get a few events while they wait for 5 HHP to come back. As I said, the problem here isn't so much that some people will get a lot of strength quickly, but that once it becomes efficient to drink beer instead of eat, you have a (very nearly) constant increase in strength/time, which isn't what you get when you eat (not that you stop eating when you drink).

[Rift]

well, from my guessing i would still say it seems less-effective then bear-eating, even though bears are becomming rarer and rarer, since you can get 200 str fep from a single bear [+ 2 boars], Even if it takes you awhile to find/kill one.
To me this sounds like a nice balancing alternative for people who are unable/do not desire to hunt bears.

[loftar]

The difference between drinking beer and hunting bears is that you need to be hungry to eat the bear, you don't need to be hungry to drink beer you just drink until you feel like stopping.

That's not actually true, though. One gulp of beer fills you up 1%, and one gulp of wine fills you up 0.25%. Both may need adjustment; that will remain to be seen.

[killerdynamo]

That's not actually true, though. One gulp of beer fills you up 1%, and one gulp of wine fills you up 0.25%. Both may need adjustment; that will remain to be seen.

ok, that makes me feel better, thank you for clarifying that. I have a feeling you'll need to modify the amount it fills you by a lot, but I feel fine as long as you're watching it.

[kimya]

well, from a physiological point of view, you can ofc drink really really much and you will never get "full" like you would by eating food. cause fluids pass the GIT very very fast...
but, there are other regulations that stop you from just drinking 50 liters a day, which should be represented somehow. especially drinking alcohol should be limited in a way... 1% for beer doesnt sound enough for me.

as the hunger bar does not alone represent your "hunger", but also your bodys ->need<- for energy and stuff, beer and wine could in fact higher that value by 5-10% per drink. as aclohol has a lot of energy...

/edit
oh, i just a nice idea!!! what if you could actually get "thick" if you constantly ate or drank too much? effects would be slowing down and getting hungry slower...