The Ghost of Christmas Future

[Rador]

Ah, that sounds much better then before. That would be relatively acceptable for haven. Cuz less botable stuff is better.

And you see how successfull salem is with their system.

Even with bots haven is much more accepted by the playerbase. It doesnt make sense to make it harder to bot if you dont make it easier to do the daily work. Most bots are used for tasks that are butthurting time intensive. With a new lp system you might kick the bots out, but also those who just still play because they found a way to make the daily tasks easier.

[GrapefruitV]

Amount of active players has nothing to do with lp system (or atleast lp system is not the only thing to blame). Haven's current system is better, than system in average popular mmo and I don't see 200 000 players online here. Graphics, lack of promotion, permadeath... and, lets admit it, HnH and Salem both are games for players, who love being buttfucked and miserable everyday, which is pretty rare for normal people. This is what stops both from being popular.
Salem's lp system doesn't stop you from using bots for boring and time consuming tasks, it only stops you from trying to get experience advantage over other players with bots. That's why it is good.

[APXEOLOG]

Ah, that sounds much better then before. That would be relatively acceptable for haven. Cuz less botable stuff is better.

And you see how successfull salem is with their system.

Even with bots haven is much more accepted by the playerbase. It doesnt make sense to make it harder to bot if you dont make it easier to do the daily work. Most bots are used for tasks that are butthurting time intensive. With a new lp system you might kick the bots out, but also those who just still play because they found a way to make the daily tasks easier.

There's not LP system's fault. The main problem in Salem is that there's no crossroads/village claim/hearth fire teleport system, and, as a result, no macro-play level. You cannot travel through world fast (no trading except boston, no new-grid exploring, no far raids, no spot defending / attacking, no way to maintain big industry, no social interactions between villages etc). I hope j&l will leave teleports at hafen and, moreover, i hope they will return back charter stones as a 3rd jump point (bugfixed ofcourse).

Actually i think Salem has way more balanced game mechanics then H&H at some point, but personally i hate purity hardcap (killed all industry and selection), no teleports (already told why), no influence of spots (killed macro play even more), stupid passive defence system (just stupid). On the other hand i love such fixes like "You cannot move your *hearth fire* while you have scents" and some others.

[Satan_from_Brodgar]

Thanks all for explaining.

[Bob_the_Cat]

I hope j&l will leave teleports at hafen and, moreover, i hope they will return back charter stones as a 3rd jump point (bugfixed ofcourse).

I feel like a problem with charter stones is that it hurt new players, which hurts the player base overall. Like if new player spawn at the charter stone, they would useually always be murdered very quickly, then think the game was bs.

[Nummy]

Amount of active players has nothing to do with lp system (or atleast lp system is not the only thing to blame). Haven's current system is better, than system in average popular mmo and I don't see 200 000 players online here. Graphics, lack of promotion, permadeath... and, lets admit it, HnH and Salem both are games for players, who love being buttfucked and miserable everyday, which is pretty rare for normal people. This is what stops both from being popular.
Salem's lp system doesn't stop you from using bots for boring and time consuming tasks, it only stops you from trying to get experience advantage over other players with bots. That's why it is good.

Ofcourse it does have. For example: previously if you wanted to get LP, oyu had to be online and do stuff to advance. Now? Bot for curios, put curios into study inventory and log off -> ergo less people online because you can level multiple characters offline now!

[LadyV]

Amount of active players has nothing to do with lp system (or atleast lp system is not the only thing to blame). Haven's current system is better, than system in average popular mmo and I don't see 200 000 players online here. Graphics, lack of promotion, permadeath... and, lets admit it, HnH and Salem both are games for players, who love being buttfucked and miserable everyday, which is pretty rare for normal people. This is what stops both from being popular.
Salem's lp system doesn't stop you from using bots for boring and time consuming tasks, it only stops you from trying to get experience advantage over other players with bots. That's why it is good.

Ofcourse it does have. For example: previously if you wanted to get LP, oyu had to be online and do stuff to advance. Now? Bot for curios, put curios into study inventory and log off -> ergo less people online because you can level multiple characters offline now!

With the level of bot development I think reverting to a system of doing things would make more bots. If people complain farming is to boring with all its clicking imagine cutting forests, making item after item just to advance. They will automate it even more than the curio system. So i respectfully disagree.

[GrapefruitV]

Ofcourse it does have. For example: previously if you wanted to get LP, oyu had to be online and do stuff to advance. Now? Bot for curios, put curios into study inventory and log off -> ergo less people online because you can level multiple characters offline now!

We already had this argument few days ago in this thread and it was deleted. Go here, if you want to discuss it. I'll answer to this one, but please quote me to another thread, if you will want to continue.
1. Online in Haven was pretty stable since w3. 1000-1300 at the worlds first couple of weeks and 250-400 at latest stages. It was same with both systems.
2. Players counter doesn't care if it is bot or player. So if botting curios was that common, we would see same numbers.
3. Getting curios sounds easy, when you say it, but it is not. You need forager bot checking swamps and mountains every 15 minutes and few different full cycle crafting bots to have enough curios. Materials for craft don't just appear in your cupboards either. So now you have to spend your time hunting, growing trees and making metal instead of grinding. And again counter doesn't really care about the kind of your activities.
4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

[APXEOLOG]

4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

This is not true actually. All ppl i know have at least 2 main chars, usually more. It's not that hard to have 1 combat char in trad, 1 combat char in change, 1 farmer / crafter, +- foragers / alts for claims / alts for different other things.

[Sarge]

4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

This is not true actually. All ppl i know have at least 2 main chars, usually more. It's not that hard to have 1 combat char in trad, 1 combat char in change, 1 farmer / crafter, +- foragers / alts for claims / alts for different other things.

I hated heaps of alts on principle (but that was my problem) and I always had 2 mains (one combat focused & a crafter that never left the village walls). I knew guys with 2 mains and 8+ combat alts though. Their combat alts had lagging stats for sure, in comparison with their mains, but not in comparison with the ave progression of the combat toons on the server at the time. They were not the norm though, I will certainly concede that too.