The Ghost of Christmas Future

[GrapefruitV]

4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

This is not true actually. All ppl i know have at least 2 main chars, usually more. It's not that hard to have 1 combat char in trad, 1 combat char in change, 1 farmer / crafter, +- foragers / alts for claims / alts for different other things.

That's why I said 4. And developed. Claim alts, lawspeakers, vandals and foragers are just a few hudreds lp each (1-2kk for advanced players), so they don't count as a part of alts army. It is common to have 2 combat alts, farmer and crafter for experienced players (who are not the majority by the way). At this stage "developed up to date" means atleast 1000ua, 800 farming, 250 carpentry, 500 sewing, etc. I don't know people with such chars being passively raised (and passivity is the main complaint of curios system haters), usually that requires a lot of online and effort, atleast to feed them.

[ramones]

This "alt" word will have to be forgotten once... They are not alts, they are all chars. Some more important some less. If you play with 5 chars, use them daily, then they are all your chars, not alts. You can only judge alts by saying aha this is me (Insert your name) and others are my alts, even tho you use "alts" more than yourself.

I'm always having a char, that I raise since start of the world, forage with it, explore etc. I feed him, raise him, dress him, build everything with him. On other hand, I eventually start to raise another char which will be my farmer, crafter. From that moment, I feed both the same, raise stats, build with both, farm with one, explore with other, craft with one, explore with other. Eventually first born char doesn't need that much stuff to be raised anymore, while secondly born crafter never has enough stats so I keep raising him.

When my setup is done and I'm doing nice farming, crafting etc., I have good conditions to produce more food than I can eat, so I make char with fighting abilities, feed him spare curios, raise him. All 3 chars are now feed, breed, dressed,... and online more or less same time per day.

Which one is my main?

[borka]

My mains are the ones that do the main stuff - alts are for alternate stuff like claiming, keyholding, transporting...

[Ninijutsu]

Your main is the one that killed the most people in glorious combat.

[borka]

Aw no mains on my side then

[Amanda44]

My main is always my farmer but this world, as my base is split between above and below ground, my miner now has far better stats - so really idk which one is my main.

My alts are like Borka says, claim owners and key alts - I did have a third, semi active char at another base, but it has just been murdered.

[Nummy]

Ofcourse it does have. For example: previously if you wanted to get LP, oyu had to be online and do stuff to advance. Now? Bot for curios, put curios into study inventory and log off -> ergo less people online because you can level multiple characters offline now!

We already had this argument few days ago in this thread and it was deleted. Go here, if you want to discuss it. I'll answer to this one, but please quote me to another thread, if you will want to continue.
1. Online in Haven was pretty stable since w3. 1000-1300 at the worlds first couple of weeks and 250-400 at latest stages. It was same with both systems.
2. Players counter doesn't care if it is bot or player. So if botting curios was that common, we would see same numbers.
3. Getting curios sounds easy, when you say it, but it is not. You need forager bot checking swamps and mountains every 15 minutes and few different full cycle crafting bots to have enough curios. Materials for craft don't just appear in your cupboards either. So now you have to spend your time hunting, growing trees and making metal instead of grinding. And again counter doesn't really care about the kind of your activities.
4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

1. In previous system, you have to have every charcter online to get LP. Now you only need online bots to get stuff for you. So if you are leveling 10 characters, before you had to have 10 accounts and all 10 online doing stuff. Now you can have 1 or 2 bots online gathering stuff for you while others 8 are offline collecting LP's. See the difference? There was always small player base, but I say real players might peak around 500 active players and I think that was probably during world 3. Why that happened then? Probably because we had biggest world ever known. Today we are so camped together that sooner or later you hit someone and often those encounters aren't friendly. That is why is driving many people from this game as well and hence smaller number of active players.

2. see number one. You can have 1 bot gathering materials for probably 10 or more other characters. You don't need 10 bots to feed 10 characters. 1 or 2 is enough. Just imagine, having 1 bot gathering pearl mussels 24/7 and average pearl count around 1 per day. You would be the richest guy in H&H and would probably could afford to buy curios from others. But I can assure you that 1 bot for foraging is usually enough for more characters. Search the forum and you will see some people having full cupboards of curios gathered from one bot. Also keep in mind, that gathering is much faster process than studying. To study one curio you usually need few hours if not days, while gathering you can easily manage to get few curios per hour.

3. gathering curios with bot is super easy. Writing correct script for that bot isn't easy. Trust me, when you have good script it will run automatically without the need of watching the screen all the time. There are also bots for gathering wood, ore, farming,... almost everything. Maybe there are even bots for crafting as well. But I 100% know for sure for gathering bots, because I have seen them in action and some scripts are lying on my disk as well, though I don't really use bot because I don't have the need for it. I don't play this game hardcore and I'm not going to destroy my gaming experience with bots. I would probably only use bot for gathering wood. That is the only pain in the ass work for me to do.

4. I think it was one world back that pendemonium or A.D. had army of bots. Heck, FACTORY of characters. I remember (I think it was burginham) someone boasted on forum with screenshot of cellar where he had 10+ HF's with alts and cuboards full of curios just feeding them and leveling them up. So don't lie, first check the forum for facts.

5. I never said it would be back to switch back to full old system, but to implement a mix of new and old system.
-remove LP reward for repetative tasks and tasks that can destroy others game experience (like cutting down trees like crazy).
-reward LP reward for task you wish to promote - crafting certain items, cooking, hunting, killing,...
-remove gathering curios but only keep crafted ones as bonus boost for getting some extra LP while your character is offline, but limit daily gain of LP got through studying.

Many downsides of new systems are:
-people can level up army of characters = death means nothing to them
-people still uses bots to get advantage over others, so one of main reason old system got replaced is still here
-early game is stupidly boring and slow, end game is stupidly easy. Problem at early stage is not having enough intelligence to study many curios and waiting hours to get LP's to actually start playing the game. It's stupid and boring. At late game, when you get cheese everyone can run around with 150+ intelligence and waiting for LP isn't boring anymore because your character is usually already powerful enough to hunt and craft and you need to wait several days to increase stats more. Also having so big variety of curios and so small study inventory is just bad idea.

[TeckXKnight]

While you're entirely correct Nummy, the only issue is that the Devs and most of the playerbase have recognized these facts and have brainstormed to work towards a new system. I know this is the third time in as many days that I've pointed to my signature, but really, the devs have recognized these issues and are working towards fixing them. Honest. =)

[YoukaiMori]

1. Online in Haven was pretty stable since w3. 1000-1300 at the worlds first couple of weeks and 250-400 at latest stages. It was same with both systems.
2. Players counter doesn't care if it is bot or player. So if botting curios was that common, we would see same numbers.
3. Getting curios sounds easy, when you say it, but it is not. You need forager bot checking swamps and mountains every 15 minutes and few different full cycle crafting bots to have enough curios. Materials for craft don't just appear in your cupboards either. So now you have to spend your time hunting, growing trees and making metal instead of grinding. And again counter doesn't really care about the kind of your activities.
4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

I... I just.... Oh god I'm crying I'm so happy. There is so much wrong with this I am literally crying IRL out of joy.

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1. Online in Haven was pretty stable since w3. 1000-1300 at the worlds first couple of weeks and 250-400 at latest stages.[b] It was same with both systems.[/b]

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2. Players counter doesn't care if it is bot or player. [b]So if botting curios was that common, we would see same numbers[/b].

I don't think you read what you wrote because on one hand you are saying the numbers are the same, on the other hand you are saying botting isn't as common or the numbers would be the same. So... I don't even need to add to this.

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3. Getting curios sounds easy, when you say it, but it is not. You need forager bot checking swamps and mountains every 15 minutes and few different full cycle crafting bots to have enough curios.

One trip to a swamp can get you 40 hours of dragonflies alone not counting anything else you get there. "But dragonflies are shit tier starter curios", they're still curiosities, if all you're doing is botting for curios and AFKing I doubt a 2weight curio that gives 2k LP with max change would be thrown out.

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Materials for craft don't just appear in your cupboards either. So now you have to spend your time hunting, growing trees and making metal instead of grinding. And again counter doesn't really care about the kind of your activities.

"instead of grinding", I'm sorry, but what exactly do you think people used to do in worlds 1-3? Raising skills to raise quality to raise skills to raise quality, this is pretty much all there is to H&H.

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4. People often say, that with current lp system it is possible to make alts army without much effort. But in 3 years no one did. Some people made attempts, but no one was patient enough to be raising more than 4 chars developed up to date. The closest thing we saw in years was about 5 combat alts with 2 times less ua, than was average at this stage.

Hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

"Guys in worlds 1-3 my highest LP was 1 million but now in world 7 my highest is 30 million, but I definitely can't logged-out grind an alt or anything, no siree bob. That's impossible!"

While you're entirely correct Nummy, the only issue is that the Devs and most of the playerbase have recognized these facts and have brainstormed to work towards a new system. I know this is the third time in as many days that I've pointed to my signature, but really, the devs have recognized these issues and are working towards fixing them. Honest. =)

The fact you have to so often argue about the LP system pretty much shows how awful it is. But you'll deny that and continue to say "But it's better than the old system". That same thing that people keep suggesting because they didn't know that's what H&H used to have.

On that subject, I find it hilarious that a lot of people who who are defending the new system and attacking the old (E.G. people who say that the only way to gain LP was to "deforest" while crafting buckets.) created their accounts after the study system was added and have most likely never played with the old system and are just parroting nonsense.

BUT I DIGRESS. There is a whole thread all about this as previously linked.

[Tonkyhonk]

On that subject, I find it hilarious that a lot of people who who are defending the new system and attacking the old (E.G. people who say that the only way to gain LP was to "deforest" while crafting buckets.) created their accounts after the study system was added and have most likely never played with the old system and are just parroting nonsense.