Release Date Trailer: Eternal Alpha, Aug. 21st 2015

[epicless]

Newsflash: Then you do not enjoy the actual game.

This. Quoting the "About" page:
"The game sets itself apart from other games in the genre in its aim to provide players with an interactive, affectable and mutable game world, which can be permanently and fundamentally changed and affected through actions undertaken by the players. Our fundamental goal with Haven & Hearth is to create a game in which player choices have permanent and/or lasting effects and, thus, providing said players with a meaningful and fun gaming experience."

Players generally refer to live, breathing individuals who are actually playing the game as intended.

Bots have always been a means to bypass a game's original intent and design.

[DaniAngione]

Newsflash: Then you do not enjoy the actual game.

This. Quoting the "About" page:
"The game sets itself apart from other games in the genre in its aim to provide players with an interactive, affectable and mutable game world, which can be permanently and fundamentally changed and affected through actions undertaken by the players. Our fundamental goal with Haven & Hearth is to create a game in which player choices have permanent and/or lasting effects and, thus, providing said players with a meaningful and fun gaming experience."

Players generally refer to live, breathing individuals who are actually playing the game as intended.

Bots have always been a means to bypass a game's original intent and design.

Exactly. Bots ruined H&H and I'm eager to play hafen early days since at least there won't be bots (or enough bots) to ruin it too when it starts.

There's no valid argument whatsoever that justify the usage of bots. And if the best people can come up with is "I like the other half of the game so I leave bots doing this half for me" then maybe this isn't the game for you and you should probably head to Counter-strike or something.

[venatorvenator]

Newsflash: Then you do not enjoy the actual game.

This. Quoting the "About" page:
"The game sets itself apart from other games in the genre in its aim to provide players with an interactive, affectable and mutable game world, which can be permanently and fundamentally changed and affected through actions undertaken by the players. Our fundamental goal with Haven & Hearth is to create a game in which player choices have permanent and/or lasting effects and, thus, providing said players with a meaningful and fun gaming experience."

Players generally refer to live, breathing individuals who are actually playing the game as intended.

Bots have always been a means to bypass a game's original intent and design.

If you have a competitive pvp game, it's expected that players will try to exploit it.

You are missing the point though: botting is not a problem, alts are. When there are alts, there is no incentive in sticking to a single character and giving it meaning. The fact is that the playerbase developed an alting culture and one can't change that easily. Even alt forum posting is tolerated.

There are coders who play this game only because of the bots, to make experiments and see what they can do within the game. They hermit, play peacefully, and do their thing quietly. They would bot even with a single-char policy, and their botting isn't disruptive of other people's game at all. Botting, per se, is not the issue.

[Denkar]

There are coders who play this game only because of the bots, to make experiments and see what they can do within the game. They hermit, play peacefully, and do their thing quietly. They would bot even with a single-char policy, and their botting isn't disruptive of other people's game at all.

What you do in a multiplayer game such as this one affects other players no matter how small it is. If you want to practice coding and "make experiments" then fuck off to a single player game. That's not the point of this game and never will be.

The fact that botters are so utterly deluded at this point speaks volumes of how low the community of this game has fallen.

[HarryDresden]

Newsflash: Then you do not enjoy the actual game.

This. Quoting the "About" page:
"The game sets itself apart from other games in the genre in its aim to provide players with an interactive, affectable and mutable game world, which can be permanently and fundamentally changed and affected through actions undertaken by the players. Our fundamental goal with Haven & Hearth is to create a game in which player choices have permanent and/or lasting effects and, thus, providing said players with a meaningful and fun gaming experience."

Players generally refer to live, breathing individuals who are actually playing the game as intended.

Bots have always been a means to bypass a game's original intent and design.

If you have a competitive pvp game, it's expected that players will try to exploit it.

You are missing the point though: botting is not a problem, alts are. When there are alts, there is no incentive in sticking to a single character and giving it meaning. The fact is that the playerbase developed an alting culture and one can't change that easily. Even alt forum posting is tolerated.

There are coders who play this game only because of the bots, to make experiments and see what they can do within the game. They hermit, play peacefully, and do their thing quietly. They would bot even with a single-char policy, and their botting isn't disruptive of other people's game at all. Botting, per se, is not the issue.

This is a fair point, alts add incentive to diversify as a single player, and reject the community model that seems to be such a strong base. When you're able to grind 20 characters at the same time, what does it matter when one of them can die? It gets rid of that little bit of magic.

[Marielx]

I kinda agree, doing this kind of game a "1character only" game would geatly improve the way of game, because alts have been used for way too many bad things so far (botting, treason, spy infiltration of enemy factions/villages, vaults, etc) that also affect the game.

But that doesnt make the "bots are bad" point less true and valid, because as someone here said, theres not a single valid reason to use a cheating device/tool such as bots, if you dont enjoy the game for what it is, then you shouldnt play it.
Of course, there are always ways to improve the game, things it lacks, things that would be better gone or stuff that needs to be changed, but one thing is refining the gameplay and other is directly bypassing everything you dislike for whatever reason with cheats.

[venatorvenator]

When you're able to grind 20 characters at the same time, what does it matter when one of them can die?

Yeah I believe that's exactly the problem. If you give people an easy way to play, most will take it, so that possibility can't exist in the first place. That's why anything we say here is pointless unless there are both ingame and forum measures to prevent alts. No alter will be convinced to stop alting for the good of the community, that's for certain.

And no, I think what really reflects how low the community has fallen are the names people give to their mains and alts, and also to their villages. /That/ is what shows how little effort they give to their characters and how empty and meaningless they are to the players.

As for a valid reason for botting, my opinion is that devs should allow all forms of playing, and botting is one of them. That's also a good way to generate feedback for their alpha, which in turn improves the gameplay for the rest of us. I'm not a botter myself, and I didn't even use the fuel bug while I was playing, but I think completely blocking botting won't be a good thing.

[Marielx]

As for a valid reason for botting, my opinion is that devs should allow all forms of playing, and botting is one of them. That's also a good way to generate feedback for their alpha, which in turn improves the gameplay for the rest of us. I'm not a botter myself, and I didn't even use the fuel bug while I was playing, but I think completely blocking botting won't be a good thing.

Nah, thats not a valid reason, the point of an alpha would be to "test" the game, and you need to "test" the game yourself to give feedback, otherwise why would an alpha exist in the first place? Just gather 10,000 bots and run them to do the alpha, screw players.

Again, theres not a valid reason to play the game with bots, specially for a "multiplayer game" where all your actions count, and for someone who actually "puts effort" into their character, its really sad when you work hard to grow on your free time and someone just progresses 4-5 times faster than you by leaving a bot to do all the work all day, all the week, all the month, etc.

Devs allow different forms of playing, but botting is NOT playing.

[longfeather]

-snip-

No matter the debate. If you are for it or against it.

People are always going to progress 4 - 5x faster, either with or without it.

Some people have nothing to do besides stay logged in for entire days at a time working on q grinds, node hunting, raiding, etc.

No lifers will always be ahead of people who have real life obligations. The fact that they don't have anything to do but play the game makes it so.

[Marielx]

No matter the debate. If you are for it or against it.

People are always going to progress 4 - 5x faster, either with or without it.

Some people have nothing to do besides stay logged in for entire days at a time working on q grinds, node hunting, raiding, etc.

No lifers will always be ahead of people who have real life obligations. The fact that they don't have anything to do but play the game makes it so.

Youre missing the entire point, because the progress and the speed of one's progress is not the issue here, the problem is when you do it without doing any kind of effort and via cheats such as botting.

Those "no lifers" you disrespectfully direct to are "playing the game" and putting effort into it, you cant expect everyone to grow at the same rate in any way and botting only makes it worse.

The game is specifically focused into that, on your growth depending on how much time and effort you invest into your character, so doing cheats to "literally" break the game's core feature is low and lame in any way you look at it, making me say again that "There is no valid reason to use bots" and that can be said in ANY game, not just H&H.

By your logic, why dont we all start with max stats and best gear? In fact, why is LP and Food system in there? Just take them out and put everyone in a simple, flat terrain so everyone kills each other, its the "half" of the game you enjoy after all.