The Ghost of Christmas Future

[_Gunnar]

Ninijutsu you stole my outfit (your avatar)

Numbers and battlefield coordination are important too, though. If enough people are there to opp knocks/valstrike that 1000ua guy (or even npng, which can be done immediately with no stats whatsoever) he can still go down, even in a fight with equalish numbers, depending on relative organisation of both sides. Its easy to get enough strength with a b12 to cut through any armour, which is why i was always using one in w6, before it was popular.

[TeckXKnight]

Let me explain a simple mechanic. 30-50 agility compared to 100+ means the older toon will be able to perform many more maneuvers. On top of that, when a axe of the 12 can crush through bronze armor and down, after the SCD is taken out, yes it is gear base, and also stat grind base. which Is all time based not skill based.

One of the core design concepts of Haven was that a character that can be made in a day should have difficulty against a character that is substantially developed. Within current mechanics it's pitifully easy to raise a character to 50 agility in just a day or less. It's not impossible to turn the tide but if someone has something ridiculous like 4x your agility and is attacking at 1.25x speed and you're at 0.75x speed it is indeed difficult to stand a chance if you're not leagues above them in combat ability.

Everything breaks through armor because you're not meant to rely on it. Your fists break through armor pretty darn well too, as does every sword. If you could build a set of armor and be invulnerable, that'd be a great example of gear based combat. Lower characters without proper gear couldn't even scratch you, regardless of how good they were or how bad you were.

I'm not going to argue against the stat grind. Haven is Eating Food: The Game. Anyone playing should know this.

[Ninijutsu]

break through armor pretty darn well too, as does every sword.

[jordancoles]

Swords aren't worth shit this world, b12 or go home

[TeckXKnight]

Hmm, I've clearly missed something then. Is it because getting a kill is otherwise impossible if you're not getting a 1 hit kill?

[Ninijutsu]

Hmm, I've clearly missed something then. Is it because getting a kill is otherwise impossible if you're not getting a 1 hit kill?

It's unreasonable to think that a weak character unable to break armor class could punch a stronger character to death, unless the strong character literally just started playing the game.

[jordancoles]

Hmm, I've clearly missed something then. Is it because getting a kill is otherwise impossible if you're not getting a 1 hit kill?

Sword damage was nurfed so badly that you need a massive amount of str to be able to effectively break the armor and deal actual damage to the person you're trying to fight.
You will need to invest nearly double or even triple the time that the person you are fighting who is wearing a b12 would have needed to invest in their character in order to achieve the same effect.

[Ninijutsu]

Jordan, just because you saw the word Sword in big bold letters doesn't mean the whole conversation is about swords, because they have nothing to do with it.

And Teck, I don't mean to be disrespectful but you obviously know nothing on the subject.

[Potjeh]

Swords don't have penetration, never did.

[jordancoles]

Jordan, just because you saw the word Sword in big bold letters doesn't mean the whole conversation is about swords, because they have nothing to do with it.

Then don't highlight the things you don't want to talk about