Game Development: Salem & Haven

[Oskatat]

Show me one example of f2p done right, that doesn't involve in-game ads (cause McDonalds would look out of place in this setting).

http://en.transformice.com/

guild wars is also an good example of a pvp game that doesn't use a subscription model, its microtransactions are not unbalancing

my bad, i thought you were still giving examples of f2p

[Crador]

There are many different types of microtransactions. Some games that use them do give you an advantage in pvp. These suck. But there are others that are only cosmetic or for convenience. Avatar changers, exclusive avatars/outfits, resurrections, potions, teleports, larger inventories, and so on. all depends on how they set it up, microtransactions are not a bad thing in themselves. F2P may be the only model a permadeath game could succeed under anyways

Ressurections, potion, teleports, larger inventories - all mentioned gives you advantage in PvP (even in combat PvP, not to talk about economical/crafting PvP, which is crucial in player-driven economy game). If it'll be subscribe from start - i'll surely try, even if i don't like that kind of 3D engine. If it'll be F2P with item mall - then heck no. Better be in Wurm, then.

those are examples, not every game uses them. you condemn something you don't know very much about

the number of people brainwashed into thinking a subscription model is the only one that works never ceases to amaze me. F2P is friendlier to casual and trial players

You condemn my knowledge without knowing much about it. You arrogance does't makes your points any more valid. And i have't said that "sub" is _only one_ working. Sub or P2P are two _most common_ paying methods in modern MMO's. You recall one 5 years old project without disbalancing item shop? Good. That's called "exception", which prooves general rule.

LotRO, Allods Online, Aion, Perfect World, Lineage, Runes of Magic, over9000 Korean grinding fests, and so on and so on. Versus Guild Wars and World of Tanks.

The main point is, that if L&J remain financially independand unit - they can decide paying methods (up to free with "donate if you wish"), but as soon as someone will invest money in their project (servers, hosting, advertisment) - he will demand profit. And F2P with disbalancing Item Shop is way more profitable, then Sub or buying packages. Yes, Paradox is known for a good hardcoregaming projects without orientation on "as big as possible playerbase" and huge profits, but that does't mean they are up to charity. That's what makes me concerned.

P.S. "brainwashed". lol, yeah, insulting does't adds anything to validate your point either.

[Onionfighter]

I don't really know how Paradox does business, but they may just want to invest in the game to see if it is popular, and later on try to figure out how to capitalize on it.

[Jackard]

You condemn my knowledge without knowing much about it. You arrogance does't makes your points any more valid. And i have't said that "sub" is _only one_ working. Sub or P2P are two _most common_ paying methods in modern MMO's. You recall one 5 years old project without disbalancing item shop? Good. That's called "exception", which prooves general rule.

your generalizations have proven nothing

i only listed one example because i know you are the bitch that would shoot down every example

[Thurrok]

Seems like I got off the boat just right in time to miss the shitstorm that would've crushed my beloved HnH sooner or later anyway. Well, I hope you know what you're doing, J&L.
Who knows, maybe one day I will even go so far as to try playing Salem.

There's two things that I'm left wondering:

1) That Salem screenshot on dfwk forums with a trollface in the crafting menu, from 15 or so days ago, how'd it leak? Or was it a publicity stunt?
2) Why does the HnH community keep discussing payment methods for an upcoming MMO here and now? It's not like anyone can foresee what Paradox's plans are with Salem. In the end, it'll still be up to their customerbase whether they accept the cash shop (keep p[l]aying) or ragequit for some other game. It's the way a free market works - letting hordes of clueless sheep make crucial decisions. This is very much to jorb's liking, iirc. Whatever be the final outcome, I believe it is already decided and even if it isn't, in what way is constant bitching and slashing at each other supposed to help?

[Butko]

It doesn't mater if it is F2P or not. H&H is F2P and it's good. Pretty good and decent. MAybe not balanced and have some flaws but hey it still alpha.
But I'm afraid that Salem will take all the time from developers to stay on H&H and also I think Salem will overtake H&H in some time.

I only don't like that Salem is 3D. Isometric 2D GFX was something that made H&H unique in that brand.

[Jackard]

i dunno but if it doesnt have smoother controls or utilize the advantages of three dimensions i may *headdesk*

just think if H&H had more zeldalike combat action and jumping and climbing and 3d terrain/terraforming/building and physics. a game worth playing

but if its just H&H flatworld with a camera and models.... well heh, no. look at that alpha footage, if im building a cobblestone road in a 3d game i expect it to be more than a simple texture

[Steelsmasher]

Wow so Jorb works at paradox?!?
I love playing Europa Universalis 3 HTTT, I'll be getting Divine Winds soon too.
Great game.

[cgbnab]

Congratulations

Btw, is it just me or did Jorb kinda have to force out "witchcraft" and "magic" when he spoke about it being a "path" in the game?

I think if Jorbtar uses "witchcraft" and "magic" for anything, it should be Terry Pratchett-style withcraft.

[nvojpo]

Its going to be free to play, whats this talk about paying?