The Ghost of Christmas Future

[Kaios]

Like I said, it's pointless to try and make others feel bad because they require a little more effort for their money.

sure not.

seriously, kaios, stop wasting your time and go somewhere else to do something fruitful for you.

Why are you so good at missing the point? Let's dial back time a few pages and go back to Loftar's post, attempting to make Nummy feel bad because he would only choose to donate under certain circumstances, circumstances which are common for most any other game in development but because you guys feel one way or the other about the developers you won't allow anyone a chance to voice their opinion because to you they sound entitled.

If you haven't figured it out by now, you should also note that in many of my posts I say 'you' not specifically, but in a broader sense. I am usually always speaking to or about the general populous.

[Tonkyhonk]

Why are you so good at missing the point? Let's dial back time a few pages and go back to Loftar's post, attempting to make Nummy feel bad because he would only choose to donate under certain circumstances, circumstances which are common for most any other game in development but because you guys feel one or the other about the developers you won't allow anyone a chance to voice their opinion because to you they sound entitled.

If you haven't figured it out by now, you should also note that in many of my posts I say 'you' not specifically, but in a broader sense. I am usually always speaking to or about the general populous.

there is no point in your argument, kaios. i know what you are talking about, but its just pathetic to threaten developers not to donate IF they dont do what you jerks want to see. you dont have to donate and leave and you guys keep on talking about IFs all the way. a chance to voice their opinions? cmon, how many more times do you assholes have to repeat the same old complaints? wanna hear them start shouting enough is enough? (i know they wont, but i would.)

[Kaios]

a chance to voice their opinions? cmon, how many more times do you assholes have to repeat the same old complaints? wanna hear them start shouting enough is enough?

Point proven, bye now!

fyi, plenty of times I guess

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37212
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37118

SEE, I'M NOT INSANE, IN FACT I'M KIND OF RATIONAL
WHEN I BE ASKING, "YO WHERE DID ALL THE PASSION GO?"

[Tonkyhonk]

"the ghost of christmas yet to come" did not show the future for you to complain and spend your time miserably.
bye, scrooge(s).

[borka]

I personally don't want to make you or Nummy feel bad - it's your own right to have that stance - so don't call us sheeple and try to make us feel bad...

...or Loftar a meanie when answering in an sarcastical way because he thinks you're having misconception on donating (by know you should know their way of reacting to such) - that Loftar is trying to answer questions about ongoing development and processes you can see in the irc transcripts Oddity and Tonky are posting once in a while. Sure they act a bit different from what one might expect by "Gamedevelopers" but hey it's them - their personality... their passion ...

I've been in some more forums of games in early state of development - and i've seen some Devs acting very openly (even with a full price closed source game), some that just had a "speaker" that had not much of a clue what's going on and some where there was no comunication with Devs at all - i had talks with a lot of Devs in the past 20 years - some which are "big names" today working for the "big names" companies and some that are "legendary" and made "legendary" games...

This is not "Areal"

That's all i wanted to make clear

[Kaios]

I'm glad you brought that up actually Borka because I don't feel they have very good player-developer relations, if any at all and in my opinion that's a huge problem. I don't care if it's their "hobby" or their main source of income.

Their method of dealing with players (future customers) is piss poor, at best.

[Potjeh]

I for one have lost faith that Loftar has any interest in making an actual game, more and more it looks like he just wants to do fun new programming things and none of the tedious footwork that goes into making a game. I fully expect that by the time Haven 2 is released another unrelated project will already be underway, and thus there'll be next to no work invested into adding content to Haven.

[borka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cs3Pvmmv0E

[Kaios]

I for one have lost faith that Loftar has any interest in making an actual game, more and more it looks like he just wants to do fun new programming things and none of the tedious footwork that goes into making a game. I fully expect that by the time Haven 2 is released another unrelated project will already be underway, and thus there'll be next to no work invested into adding content to Haven.

I don't disagree and if they ever plan to actually implement a payment system for this game or the new Haven, they'll most certainly have to come up with better responses than what their present stance on donations indicates. Besides that, if I am not just donating to a game but outright paying for it, I'd expect some better communication in general.

[Nummy]

Nummy i agree in certain points and i guess most of us do and Devs know it and prolly are concerned, discussing how to make it better and try hard

I'm going to pick up some to make my persaonal opinions replies

-bots are still problem, even more now than before with previous style of learning LP

Where there's code there will be bots - otherwise you'd have to have a closed source which would mean Loftar would have to code a good client aswell (which prolly is never good enough to suit everyone) and it would take away a big plus of HnH
Most Bots are used to be productive unlike as it was before with bucket or loom "woods"

-there are still some game breaking bugs that was never fixed. (we all know which one those are...)

Do we all know gamebreaking bugs - i don't think so - probably you should make a list and post them - maybe there are even ones Loftar doesn't know

-start of game is badly designed - you need intellect to increase your study storage but there is not enough intellect FEP food at start. - there are only blueberries and fish at the moment and blueberries start to sucks pretty fast and fishes are too fast depleted and at start too low quality.

I won't agree on this - sure i wouldn't mind if there was another Int food for beginners - but i never had problems with getting my Int up with blueberries while i got my Personal Beliefs up (and all of my Alts where living on their own the first days)

-being and hermit means you can't progress in game as you will be griefed sooner or later.

I haven't been griefed this world and i haven't been griefed last world.

-quality system should be redesigned
-nodes should change as now someone just claims something and there you can't get to high quality water, soil, clay,... except being "slave" to them. Or maybe a way to increase quality of resources around you in some way would be nice.

This is ok - not really neccesary in my view but i wouldn't mind as i know a lot of ppl think it should be changed

-russians should not be allowed to play the game or make them separate server to play on.

This is nationalists crap and BS - i wouldn't want Australians, Canadians or USAmericans exluded because i had bad experiences with some of them and on the other hands mainly good experiences with russians or koreans ... and when it comes to exploiters or account stealing i'd say "ban them" equal what nation they're from ...

My main point is: the more pressure we drop on them the less we get a game we like - i'm not sure whether i'll like the 2,5D but it's up to jorb and Loftar to decide what they do and i'm free to check it out - and also to like or dislike it - i played Salem for a while and didn't like it so i just stopped to play it ...

-not all bots or "bots" are bad in game. For instance I use apoc lite client now and I like new feature of area farming and auto picking up things from ground. It saves me a lot of time and clicking - my poor mouse
-I don't know of any of new bugs, but I'm pretty sure that some hackers know them...
-I would like to see some food we can grow ourselves like carrots for perc, but for int. I don't know... cabbage? Just something so I don't need to run around like idiot and hit griefers on every corner.
-I have been griefed several times this world. I was with someone I met in game before and we made a village and tried to make trading post. Well fag jordan coles and his group came bay and they smashed everything to smithereens... we didn't even left any scents and we were friendly to anyone. One day I went foraging on mountain and I got aggored instantly by an archer the moment I came into his viewing range... One I was foraging mussels and again someone came in boat and aggroed me instantly and started chasing me... Problem is that griefers can get away with the crime too simple. They make heartvault and when they commit crimes they just hide in there and wait until scents are gone. Hermits usually cannot afford to build a ram and even if they can they cannot wait there 8 hours or more to wait for ram to dry. And even if they manage to get ram dried do you think they have enough str to break down brick wall? I doubt that.
It should be griefers that should be online and afraid to lose their char because for their crimes not the other way around. Crime system should be reimplemented and the people committing crime should wait online to defend their character. If you are in village with BW you can run around griefing hermits and you won't be touched or anything, because they can't even fight back. And don't come with: hire a tracker and pay him to kill your griefer... first of all trusting another person who can be griefer friend? No thanks. And also why I would pay for someone to kill someone when I already lost almost everything?
-...
-as far I know I was only griefed by russians. Everytime I get aggroed the attacker speaks in Cyrillic. I would throw all people not capable of speaking english out of the game. I don't care what you speak between yourselves but when you speak with people from other countries there only one language: ENGLISH! Fucking learn it stupid russkies and other shitters! And it's every fucking game where russians come they start griefing and hacking destroying others people joy in game... what is wrong with those people all too drunk from vodka or just being totally retarded? This is not the only game that russians destroyed or helped destroy... It's in every fucking online game when they come around. I don't defend others, they are the same, but majority of russians are retards. Period. I haven't meed a good russian in game yet!

I like the idea behind this game and I like graphic style as developers around the world don't make the games like that any more. I love the idea of survivalist and everything, but some things are just stupidly made without any thinking or just for enjoyment of reading "drama" on forums. Because of that game lose players as it gets them and results are seen in game and outside of it. In game you can see all places destroyed and griefed, so many dead bodies,... out of the game you see a community of brain-dead people on forum with a tiny tiny group of nice good people and a lot of "drama" that only authistic child like and as it seems devs who seems to have strange fetishes...

I see that game and their work as their personal life achievement and a good "money" maker. I thought they will push it forward in some years (yes I play since world 3), but nothing happened. I thought this game is their "job" or job to be and they would like to earn their bread from it. But looks like it isn't, and I really really hope one day they will give us source code of server side so other people can take it and remake, reshape and redo it into a nice playable game for everyone without any mazohistic crap. I see it now that they are incompetent to make it so please let's other try and you two work on haven 2 or whatever you would like. Devs have good ideas but they are very very terrible at game designing. And their behaviour to the "audience", "fans" and all other people is just terrible. And result can be seen on forums. Bad moderators, a lots of stupid authistic kids and a tiny portion of normal people who are mainly smartly silent.