Gods Walk The Earth: Playtesting Trade

[jorb]

For some time now, I've been kicking it in #Haven, on SynIRC, under the nome de guerre "Entardred". While there, I've built up a reputation, and a small fortune, as a trader. The character I've been using for this little experiment -- "James, Jesse" -- is my trusted alt, son of Oathsworn, grandson of farbror. Jesse is, by and large, a cheat free character. I've fed him some lembas on occasion, and I've undone some losses I've suffered due to crashes, but 99% of the time he's been played entirely legit, the way anyone of you would be playing the game.

First of all I'd like to say: Thank you. Thank you to everyone I've been trading with, and thank you to everyone I've had the pleasure of playing with, especially numbers (How do you even remember your name?) and Cut_lass. I've had a lot of fun playing, trading, bartering, haggling and dealing with all of you. A shout out also to PhaedrothSP, who, just yesterday, helped me track down a criminal who had stolen some silk eggs from... a very dear friend of mine. Sabinati, that beer will keep me set for ages. The good folks of Brodgar, Yolan, theTrav -- Good luck with the copper mine. You can reclaim my Brodgar Villa, if you feel like it. The bear teeth for the Brodgar Idol were, by the way, provided by yours truly. Xybb, enjoy the bangers. Kaka, really, 1:1 tin for cast? What were you thinking? Pacho. Chakravanti. Everyone and anyone. I've been trading with more people than I could ever hope to remember.

My objective with this little ruse has been to do a serious test drive of trading in H&H, and I believe I've now accomplished that. My aim was to start with, more or less, two empty hands, and trade my way to every available good in the game. An hour or so ago gold and steel, the only raw materials missing, fell into place, and I have thus proven to my own satisfaction that it is, at least with dedication, possible to get your hands on basically anything by simply trading for it. I've done so using only a tin mine, and if gold is the king among metals -- take it from someone who knows the market -- tin is basically the feudal serf. The mine was, of course, legitimately located using rustroot.

Some thoughts:

1) The economy does a very good job of simulating a real free market economy. Monopolies never last -- the fact that only one gold mine is presently in existence (There are more to be found, though.) does not prevent gold from reaching a broader player base. I was probably the first to trade for gold, but there will be more trades for it, I'm sure.

2) There is no need for an abstract trading screen interface with mutual accept/offer functionalities. Working through baskets is more realistic, and leaves the interaction open to deceit, which I quite like.

3) Trading in bulk works just fine. Use chests. No real problem there. I guess I see a problem if you were looking to buy -- oh, I don't know, say, 10k bricks for a massive four layered brick wall fort -- but most players are doing just fine trading with chests and baskets. The real problem is actually in the opposite end of things. Trading needs a fair bit of bulk for it to be worth the trip to the RoB.

4) It's a bit too easy to travel with alcohol -- the beds are completely useless compared to a mug of Sabinati's finest -- and a bit too hard to do it without.

5) The Q system is awesome. Quite simply. I'm very happy about it.

6) It'd be so much fun if I could somehow brand my wares. I know I have, at times, traded back some of my own Q57 tin. It'd be neat if it had been marked with the name of the original producer. The process for this could be fairly advanced, wrapping cheese and sausage in colorful branded paper, and whatnot. Unsure of why, more exactly, one would do this, but I think it could be fun.

7) As usual, newb life in H&H is harsh and unforgiving. It's possible to get your hands on metal using baked goods -- I've been buying them, generally speaking, 14:1 for a bar of tin -- not out of generosity, mind you -- and I know other mine owners have as well, at about those rates. But the work effort required to produce 14 pieces of baked stuff vastly outweighs the work effort required to produce a couple of chests full of metal, so owning a mine is really a very easy job. That is to some extent as it should be, but I do feel that newbies should be able to acquire at least small amounts of metal through dredging for bog iron, and panning for silver or gold. The mechanics of this aren't really clear to me yet, but trust me when I say that it'll be a lot of work compared to mining.

8) Silk is tricky. I've been buying some of it, but there is not a lot of it available on the market. I do like the fact -- and this, interestingly enough, simulates actual silk production methods fairly well -- that silk is generally produced in very small quantities by self-sustaining farmers, who can then sell it on to bulk buyers. The silk I do have has been bought, more or less, one thread at a time (Here, here, Dwarfu). If you are a newb setting out to play, producing even a small amount of silk will get you all the metal you need, I'd wager. The thing right now, though, is that the market is basically dry. I haven't been able to acquire more than two and a half pieces of cloth, and I've been trading for every thread I've been able to. My next test will, on account of this, be silk production. It is possible that we overdid it a bit.

9) Most people don't know anything about trading. Often times, when I've offered tin in exchange for something or other, the response has been "But I don't need that". While I can understand the sentiment, you are really doing it wrong. While I've been playing, I've been trading for everything. Even if I had shitloads of it, or didn't need it, I almost always offered to exchange it for tin at some rate. The reasoning being that it can always be sold on to someone who does need it. It never hurts having stuff laying around when you're trading. Buying BBBs for nickels and dimes netted me two steel bars.

10) The RoB is an unnatural blight on the land that needs to be removed somehow. Trading is much too centralized to that one place. I would, rather, like to see a situation where a village has a local market. I am unsure of how this should be brought about, but Crossroads are a good first step, now that they have actually started to appear.

11) Quality points should decrease and deplete as they are used. Every time someone digs out clay within the radius of influence of a Q-point, that Q point should weaken. New Q-points could then be randomly spawned elsewhere when one is depleted. They should, of course, be extremely rich to begin with, or settlements won't be worth it. The point is that a single Q point of awesome water, clay or minerals, should not last forever. A long while -- very much so -- but not forever.

12) It should be easier to sell real-estate.

13) Group travel needs to be implemented per some mechanic.

14) It should be possible to travel to your claim.

15) Trading, by and large, works fine, is worthwhile, realistic and fun.

16) Trading should not be dependent on IRC.

Off the top of my hat.

The experience has taught me more about the game I'm building than I could possibly hope to sum up in a post. It amazes me how well a lot of you understand the mechanics of H&H. Thank you for being awesome, and thank you for playing with me.

Stay strong.

Entardred, over and out

[PhaedrothSP]

Well, you're very welcome for the help yesterday. xD

[Jfloyd]

I feel special, cause I do believe I was the egg thief. If this is the right event.

[Fluffy]

14) It should be possible to travel to your claim.

I was just thinking about that this morning, do it x.x

[Pacho]

Haha, I sold you your own pick back =P

Thanks for that awesome plate armor and sword =D

[Chakravanti]

This was amazing. I'd have to say if you want 10k bricks though...it should that difficult. WOuld make more sense to just to hire someone to produce the bricks on the spot. This si rather as it should be. You have quite inspired me to venture out for my own mine i believe. farming is jsut so much work. I've been trading up myself but idk if merching is exactly what I want to be doing. I think you did a great job of disproving naysayers.

I've sometimes pondered why there wasn't a distinct trade screen but otoh i like how it is currently. It forces people to work with trust and reputation which give those well known merchants a distinct position in the game.

BTW, will your still use Entarded to make that plate? Phaedroth just been so slow on ym bronze =(

I want a 'forged by Jorb' plate too =P LOL

[Peter]

Ok, I'm cool with allll of that... except for #2. Man, I hope you're kidding. Not even for trading, but just handing something to someone would be so much simpler if you could just hand it to them. Just a 4x4 area with an accept button for each side is all I want. Doesn't need to be abstract, just something to show what you're really going to get.

[jorb]

Ok, I'm cool with allll of that... except for #2. Man, I hope you're kidding. Not even for trading, but just handing something to someone would be so much simpler if you could just hand it to them. Just a 4x4 area with an accept button for each side is all I want. Doesn't need to be abstract, just something to show what you're really going to get.

I don't mind the "hand over" part, but I do mind the "accept" part. It needs to be possible to double-cross, and I don't think that an abstract skill set or the like is the solution for that. Any abstraction to trade which could be manipulated using skills would fall into immediate disuse. It sucks, but social interaction between players can't be controlled by game mechanics.

[Pacho]

how about just grabbing and dropping on a player hands it to them if they have enough inventory space?

[21383013543330]

;__; I'll always call you Entardred now =(