Slight Change: Palisades

[Thijssnl]

I'm doing a lot of manual maintenance removing grief walls. As a result, the initial cornerposts of palisades will have their costs increased to include some glue, some leather and a few ropes.

There has to be a better way.. Noobs can never ever dream of a wall before they ragequit now. Whats the point?

Also, I just made a topic about this being a bug. Hehe :') oops

[Potjeh]

the reason they haven't and probably won't make it some kind of "only the owner/allies can build" is probably because 1. it would be a lot more complicated to code and would take away from more important development time, and 2. because it wouldn't really be any more effective than sealing cornerposts

I don't think that it would be all that complicated to make it impossible to build anything but siege engines on hostile claims, and if you extend your claim so it touches unbuildable terrain (water or swamp) it'd be perfectly grief-proof.

[Jackard]

2. because it wouldn't really be any more effective than sealing cornerposts

how so

[Ferinex]

words.

gameplay > realism

[theTrav]

meaningless comparison

Realism is a tool to deliver good game play, it should not be viewed as mutually exclusive.

A more thorough explanation, is that realism, when applied to games is mostly focussed on creating a world which is internally consistent, which results in players being able to intuitively understand how things work by applying the lessons they've learnt from previous similar mechanics and/or common sense.

If you're ever going to look for emergent behaviors etc, your best bet for ending up with something that's fun / reasonable is to try and have your components as internally consistent (realistic) as possible.

[Ferinex]

Its obvious from the changes being made first with sealed posts now with added costs that Loftjorb clearly prefer non ownership based means of controlling wall griefing, perhaps it's simply a technical reason or they just don't like the 'gameness' of saying that someone cant do something because of an ephemeral 'claim'. Also theirs historical precedence, the famous double encirclement of Alesia by Caesar shows that 'walling in' isn't something that should be totally eliminated, it just needs to become a normalized part of siege warfare, the expenditure in time and resources to wall someone in needs to be comparable to the effort needed to make the initial wall.

those were the parts I was talking about trav.

[theTrav]

Sorry I'm not following...

How does speculation that joftlorbar don't like the abstract idea of claims and that there's some historical cases where wall in's were epic and cool rather than griefy and shit lead to the assertion that gameplay is greater than realism?

I think there's several assumed steps of thought in there that I'm just not able to infer.

[Ferinex]

while a wall-in in real life may be badass and amazing, it's not so in-game. walls don't have the same properties in-game as they do irl.

as far as claims being too abstract: they already influence whether or not scents are dropped, why not make them influence what can and cannot be built too.

[Jackard]

Realism is a tool to deliver good game play, it should not be viewed as mutually exclusive.

A more thorough explanation, is that realism, when applied to games is mostly focussed on creating a world which is internally consistent, which results in players being able to intuitively understand how things work by applying the lessons they've learnt from previous similar mechanics and/or common sense.

If you're ever going to look for emergent behaviors etc, your best bet for ending up with something that's fun / reasonable is to try and have your components as internally consistent (realistic) as possible.

realism and 'internally consistent' worlds are two separate things

having claims affect building would be internally consistent in this case

[sabinati]

2. because it wouldn't really be any more effective than sealing cornerposts

how so

because it depends on players to actually be smart enough to make their claim unwallable