Regarding The Forums: Welcome to H&H

[VoodooDog]

you forgot civ V

[Gentley]

lol voodoodog, didnt know youre playing again

[ImpalerWrG]

I must say I find Jorb's political beliefs disturbingly libertarian and nationalistic.

His inflammatory rhetoric over Prussia/Königsberg makes me suspect he has German/Prussian ancestry even though he is living in and/or a Swedish national.

His position on Königsberg and Israel while seemingly contradictory are quite revealing. He clearly believes in ethnic ownership of land an idea which is as dangerous as it is stupid. Almost every ethnic cleansing and genocide in human history has been build upon this belief and it all but guarantees competing claims that will cause more conflicts. The only sane policy is that of local self-determination, without any outside group attempting to forcibly alter the ethnic makeup of a territory. The Kaliningrad Oblast is completely Russified, Germans are <1% of the population, and while it was clearly a crime for the Soviets to do this it's a historic and on-the-ground fact. So any idea that this territory would go back to German is nothing less then calling for yet-another Ethnic cleansing which would basically ignite WWIII when the Russians rightfully intervene to protect their citizens. The entire post-war history of Europe has been about squashing any chance for a Third World War, because World wars are not games or fantasies they are very real, indescribably destructive and are caused by exactly the attitudes Jorb has expressed here.

[Granger]

War: people who don't know each other are going out to kill each other - guided by people who know, but don't kill eachother.

Am i the only one thinking something is wrong with this?

[jorb]

I can assure you that i only eat babies on special occasions, and only with healthy helpings of Sauerkraut.

My beliefs are *proudly* libertarian and nationalistic. You may, if you will, consider me a liberal in the tradition of 1848. I am a libertarian because I believe that a human life carries worth, value and an irrevocable right to self-determination. I believe that the institution of private property is the perhaps most vital corollary of the principle of self-ownership, that it implies the right of self-defense, and that the flaw of modern liberalism is the equation of these insights with a broad-sweeping egalitarianism set to encompass every sphere of social and economic life, and to be enforced per government decree. I consider myself a nationalist simply because I believe that the nation represents, or should represent, my extended kin. I am a cosmopolitan only in the sense that I respect, tolerate, and quite frankly like, differences. I am not egalitarian.

First of all, I have never argued for a forceful reconquest of anything (Though I obviously intended my original statement as provocative). To some extent my position, in terms of Realpolitik, is obviously more a lamentation of what I perceive to be a past wrong, rather than a policy suggestion for any immediate future. If anything I would argue for a peaceful and equitable return. I also believe that a similar discussion could be held regarding Finnish Karelia. What I do know is that no free soul can look upon the destruction of the Cathedral of Königsberg, to be replaced by now withering pieces of Stalinist architecture, without shedding at least a tear or two. 700 years of German culture, the birthplace of Immanuel Kant and E.T.A. Hoffman, was undone by the Red Army in a few cold spring months, and I consider that a tragedy. (Notice here how I am capable of holding more than one thought -- i.e. both the atrocities of Nazi Germany on the one hand, and the tragedy of Königsberg on the other -- in my head at the same time. Some consider it a mark of intelligence)

What also bothers me is Western hypocrisy with regards to both World Wars, as the historic discussion on those subjects in the West have categorically portrayed the Allied efforts as messianic crusades for democracy, when, in fact, Europe -- if, indeed, one includes more than just Western Europe in that concept -- was much less free after both the first and the second war than it was before either. A development, sadly, rubber stamped and counter signed by power brokers in London, Washington and Paris -- be they Wilsons, Clemenceaus and Lloyd-Georges or Roosevelts, De Gaulles and Churchills -- in direct violation of the Washingtonian principle of avoiding entangling foreign alliances, the Monroe doctrine and the British de facto policy of splendid isolation. All, indeed, designed specifically so as to avoid wars. What bothers me here is how Western Europe can sell out Hungary, Poland, and, in fact, all of Eastern Europe, to communism, and still keep up the image of being crusaders for human liberty.

Also, I fundamentally resent the equation of Germany, or German culture, with Hitler and National Socialism. Hitler was a direct consequence of the Peace of Versailles, which, in turn, was dictated to Germany by the Western democracies. This does not absolve Germany of any and all blame, but don't tell me that it doesn't take two to tango.

I have in this War a burning private grudge—which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler ... Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light.

I also believe it to be symptomatic for the statist mindset to jump to the conclusion that the application of state sanctioned force is the only means of achieving political goals. I consider such totalitarian Messianism a direct outflow of a profoundly Christian ethic, but without the saving grace of sacrality (no pun intended). I also cannot help but wonder why you find those opinions so wholly unworthy of consideration? You communist-loving, bleeding-heart liberal, pansy-ass hippie.

Yours truly,
Kaiser Wilhelm

[Chakravanti]

He clearly believes in ethnic ownership of land an idea which is as dangerous as it is stupid. Almost every ethnic cleansing and genocide in human history has been build upon this belief and it all but guarantees competing claims that will cause more conflicts.

Some people believe the War on Drugs is a good thing. The War on Drugs is built upon (and currently enforced as) a racial discrimination.

Does that make the war on drugs bad?

Okay bad example.

Many advancements in modern medicine are built upon the results of tests conducted by the nazi at the expense of millions of human lives.

Does this make modern medicine evil?

Kind of inverted but the principle applies. Cause and effect, while seemingly intrinsically related, do not necessarily convey moralistic values of their corollary.

Also, the right to own property by nationalistic heritage is not racist. It's Nationalist, which it seems to me is a distinction he makes quite clearly.

I also believe it to be symptomatic for the statist mindset to jump to the conclusion that the application of state sanctioned force is the only means of achieving political goals. I consider such totalitarian Messianism a direct outflow of a profoundly Christian ethic, but without the saving grace of sacrality (no pun intended).

This. THIS. OMFG THIS!!!!11!1one!1one1!

[Potjeh]

Könisgberg itself was built as a seat of a culturocidal organisation.

[jorb]

Könisgberg itself was built as a seat of a culturocidal organisation.

There is a case to be made, yes.

[Gauteamus]

Also, I fundamentally resent the equation of Germany, or German culture, with Hitler and National Socialism.

Have you read Thomas Manns Doctor Faustus?
It is what I consider (as an innocent bystander in tempora e mores) to be the standard work on this problem.

[burgingham]

Yours truly,
Kaiser Wilhelm

You rang?

Have you read Thomas Manns Doctor Faustus?
It is what I consider (as an innocent bystander in tempora e mores) to be the standard work on this problem.

Opposed to that you might wanna try Heinrich Manns "Der Untertan". Interestingly enough the two were brothers, but didn't quite share their opinion on politics.