Gondor - Proposal for a World Seven

[Vaku]

Things to Check Off

How many people does it take to feel claustrophobic?
How many neighbors does it take for you not to feel too lonely?

How do you want to handle your own market, store, place of Purchase? Do you prefer it walled, and only opened for business when you're online? Do you prefer it open to the elements all the time?

Do you enjoy seeing the traffic of wagons and carts?
Do you appreciate Milestones?
How thoroughly gated do you request roads be and areas of town be?
Is symmetry a style you want to move away from or keep to?

Do you enjoy the idea of an established Graveyard, with a Temple to Jorbtar?
Do you enjoy the idea of a crypt entrance (minehole) in the Graveyard that houses multiple corpses and opens to the Cult of the Stalagoom and its worshipers?
How do you feel the levels of ground immediately beneath the town be used?

How much land do you need to feel comfortable in your playstyle?
Do you prefer to specialize or generalize your abilities, your profession?

Do you expect there to be a location for representatives to meet and express your concerns?
Do you expect a treasury and a standardized currency, Curio-based or not?

Do you demand in addition to personal lots for living space, that you have an industry/working space lot that is larger than your personal lot?
How far are you willing to walk to your area where you conduct your production?

These are all the questions I have for now. Feel free to mull them over and ask the community other things to consider.

[Vaku]

I've got an update on a concrete representation of this project, though first of all, I'd like to thank those that had taken the time to answer my questions and provide me some input.

This project, as it was conceived, is truly massive in scale, far more ambitious than anything any one neutral party has attempted. With Brodgar being the most immediate ancestor, it now shows a lot of promise. However, due to some issues of functionality, I had to make some changes, amending the idea of multiple village idols per layer primarily. I think given the reasoning later in this post you'll be more understanding of why a singular village would be preferred.

Though for now, take in this second draft for the project:

(Downloading this is the best way to view it as each pixel represents a tile in a 1:1 ratio. 341x341 [Core of The Gondor Project])

One of the first things you may recognize is that I did INCREASE of property sizes allotted to individuals. According to a short survey I took on my Census alt, Man From the Seventh World, in Brodgar, it was unanimously agreed that 20x20 is too cramped a location to meet the immediate needs/wants of the individuals. With the only current outlet in Brodgar, to achieve more land ownership, to be going outside the bounds of town and claiming there, I decided to in short enlarge an average residence to be 31x26, resulting in 29x24 livable space as this measurement excludes the wall.This change I assume will not impede the effect of high density living, but will instead encourage more people to come and take part of the village.

I should also mention, the actual effect of a ringed city has been amended, and instead is given a surrounding two segments you see, with the residential areas. The secured 1st ring note, does not include the Government district that houses the treasury, even though guardians as they are imagined are to be some of the most trusted individuals of the village. This is simply a precaution that safeguards the livelihood of the village.

You'll notice surrounding the Idol, there is very little in the way of useful buildings, simply road, trees and a 40 meter buffer zone. Note that 40 meters is the minimum distance required to never acquire sight of an individual. Within the buffer zone are the first layers of Statues and Banners that extend the village claim in the shape of a square in, what I find to be, the most optimal range, given uninterrupted terrain.

On the note of terrain, few places in the world can house the core of this city on uninterrupted terrain, meaning no cliffs or waterways. This translates into the most likely location for a town to be located in a large thicket should it be mostly agreed upon that we settle in an uninterrupted area. Because cliffs are a fact of HnH, we must expect them to be located at the very least, outside the range of the core. Given that, it is difficult to plan for them until you see the cliff formation.

The town is capable of extending in any direction in the same fashion as Brodgar is today. It is for the most part unregulated, and as I feel, should only be tacked once the Core is 50% completed in-game.

Also, the blue 31x31 areas in the 1st layer of the core are larger than standard residential areas, and it seems unfair that they should belong to any one individual first to claim them. I would suppose that they should belong to factional groups within the village. Whether the groups are composed of Residences per layer, made out to a Merchants guild, a Templar facility, etc., are all left to be decided upon.

Anyways, give me your take on the map. It can easily be moved around an changed. For instance, if you don't desire the Avenue/Bufferzone in the SE corner past the market, and would prefer an additional five, 31x26 plots, I could replace the Avenue.

TL;DR: Like the map, dislike the map? Let me know either way and why. Hate a feature, would love a new feature? Go ahead and tell me about it. Try to use the thread and discuss it in the open.

[ValerieHallaway]

I believe your propositions are much more ambitious than most casual players can handle, and in regards to the guardian group, being as small as it is, how would your plan translate into building?
Without bots, a massive force will be needed to clear trees, pave, and build walls, with bots, what can I say? Many people don't like them, regardless of how useful they are.

What I would like for you to consider is to have a map of first priority builds, and an estimation of need, about how many people it would take to build it. From there, second priority, third and on.The issue with such a large area of Plots too large to be residences, is there will be a lot of tension early on, people wanting to inhabit them, and all of the planners telling them no.
Perhaps waves of residence plots and guild plots would work out more effectively, so individual players can be close to core, if they are worthy. In addition, your idea of the cult of the stagloom made me smile. Things like that should definitely happen, and give the place character.

[Vaku]

I believe your propositions are much more ambitious than most casual players can handle, and in regards to the guardian group, being as small as it is, how would your plan translate into building?
Without bots, a massive force will be needed to clear trees, pave, and build walls, with bots, what can I say? Many people don't like them, regardless of how useful they are.

What I would like for you to consider is to have a map of first priority builds, and an estimation of need, about how many people it would take to build it. From there, second priority, third and on.The issue with such a large area of Plots too large to be residences, is there will be a lot of tension early on, people wanting to inhabit them, and all of the planners telling them no.
Perhaps waves of residence plots and guild plots would work out more effectively, so individual players can be close to core, if they are worthy. In addition, your idea of the cult of the stagloom made me smile. Things like that should definitely happen, and give the place character.

I completely agree that there are areas that ought to be marked as being greater in priority, and that there's a lot in the map for people to take in and it can become confusing once translated as being in-game. Though, with that in mind, I've worked on Eir with great success, achieving the surrounding wall, all except 2 mansions, and a few timber houses within a month. Given that experience, having done it only with approximately 5 active people, none of which were botting, I'm very positive in seeing the core 100% completed in not much more than three months.

Seeing as we have more than five people ready to support this project, and experience to lend a hand, the completion of this is within our reach. With that said, we should conduct operations in a somewhat modular manner.

What I propose is that:

Step One: Everyone start their exploration alt/main. Go about the world looking for a decent location to accommodate this project living a nomadic lifestyle. You'd be looking for mostly uninterrupted land with the map in mind.

Step Two: Once having discovered a possible location, create a hearthfire there and provide the Hearth Secret to Yolan or any other prominent member of the project to scout the area for any problematic cliffs or riverways. Once the area is deemed suitable, having been double-checked, we begin by marking wall corners and the town Idol.

Step Three: We begin the process of Laying stone where walls ought to be, for the most part ignoring paving roads. The primary locations to map out are residential blocks. Guardians/Builders will want to begin moving in immediately and becoming situated making food for builders, farming, making wine, setting up steel crucibles and kilns. Whomever is decided to be a foreman, to head the mining operation, they will have created a mine hole, and within the mine, made the smelters, finery forges and possibly steel crucible where we would then export steel and wrought iron to the town.

Step Four: We begin with the first brick wall. Previous walls will have been Palisades around residential blocks (No one would be very effective at damaging them easily early on.) This brick wall is the one that surrounds the first layer of the core. It will cover everything excluding the market, graveyard and arena. Once completed, production can slow down dramatically. Individuals will take their place into their homes as any remaining members of the town, not yet burnt out after a month of hectic scouting and building, can continue paving roads, establishing the arena, messing with the graveyard, plopping banners and statues and setting up the treasury.

I can probably make a visual representation later. As for calculating building costs I can probably have that posted in a few days.

TL;DR : Profit

[M4NU96]

+1 for this project i wanna be one of your, certainly do not want to miss the fun

[Yolan]

I think you are correct in refiguring the plan to only have one idol. With a walled off central park like you describe we can get around the problem of random people having access to the keep.

I also support the idea of larger claims. I am wondering how you arrived at the number above though as opposed to something like 25x25, or 30x30. Not everybody knows how to use cntr L, and it might be a bit hard for people to measure out.

That aside, while I like the enthusiasm, the planning level might be a bit high considering the kind of town we want to build. We are not talking about the base of a major faction here, but a better Brogar with a ranger fort for protection. Increased complexity and specificity means increased coordination.

Also, kind of irrelevant, but I don't like circles. I have seen these circle like fields around bee hives, and I always just think - yuk. Make a square field you wierdos.

[slipper]

Crop circle is difficult to bot.

[Vaku]

I am wondering how you arrived at the number above though as opposed to something like 25x25, or 30x30. Not everybody knows how to use cntr L, and it might be a bit hard for people to measure out.

I initially tried for 31x31, thoughI had to take into account the 40 Statues of the Chieftan and 32 Banners. I did not want walls or people's lots to intersect with these areas, so I sacrificed roads and you'll notice that interspersed in the roads are the claim structures. Some are given a nice plaza to be decorated around, such as the one south of the arena. Others are put in mysterious locations such as the southern and northern portions of the graveyard. A lot of them, are in-between roads. Because they're within roads, I want to make them less of an eyesore, I want to provide runestones that dedicate any particular statue of the Chieftan to a prominent member of the village. And as new Statues and banners pop up, slowly dedicate more of these statues to various players and deeds.

Anyways, so that's why they're rectangular. They fit best with those items and players won't have to suffer the government stepping in and plopping claims in the middle of where they planned their next mansion, tree farm, etc.

[Vaku]

While I like the enthusiasm, the planning level might be a bit high considering the kind of town we want to build. We are not talking about the base of a major faction here, but a better Brodgar with a ranger fort for protection. Increased complexity and specificity means increased coordination.

I had read the post this quote belonged to, too quickly, and didn't much think to respond to it.

It is, yes a thoroughly planned project, however, that is only for setting the groundwork. Everything else, beyond setting up the Perimeter(Essential) Wall and some of the Sovereignty structures (Statues&Banners), will be life as you know it in HnH. It's only a days work for a few coordinated individuals to go out and pave where cornerposts and sovereignty structures need to go. All other individuals of the Guardian group need only focus on raising their Stats, defending the project, and if they desire, get down and dirty with the grunt work. On the first day of scouting the location, they will already know where they'll be living as the Residence plots will have already been outlined.

To help visualize and give a sense of the scale of what needs to be done, I went ahead and made a spreadsheet for the project outlining various costs. In some later days I can go ahead and break down the project by days and what may hypothetically be accomplished on each day. Believe me, it sounds overwhelming before it has even begun, but in reality, it's just playing the game as you always have: One day at a time.

Here's the link to the spreadsheet.

TL;DR: There's a link to projected costs of this iteration of the project. Summary Page is on the far right colored range. Center Range is the Breakdown of the summary and aligned left are some constants utilized for getting to some answers.

[Lemodable]