Legal Absurdities and your Fake Morality

[Jackard]

Locks and Bolts
Lets you craft Manacles that 'aggro' when placed on a person.

[Colbear]

Unfortunately, we're currently living in an era of "might makes right". Until in-game societies determine for themselves that this is not acceptable, and have the force by some means to enforce their laws and ethics on the land surrounding the village's direct control, there's basically nothing that can be done besides organizing black lists and hit lists, and hoping the strong men eventually get around to taking care of those picking on the weak men. Of course, internet anonymity and the safety of alts don't help matters.

Wow, are you seriously advocating real-world violence over a video game? That's retarded.

But aside from that part, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying... You know, maybe the strong men shouldn't be looking for other men that are weaker than them, and trying to pin a crime on them so they have an excuse to "execute" them. It's one thing if someone asks for help. It's an entirely OTHER matter to intrude on a private affair (it's private until one party makes it public) and go on a killing spree.

Let's say Goons decide to throw a gimmick event -- we do this a lot in other games, you might notice. So, let's say, each goon gets 20 minutes to be on his main while all the others make alts to attack him. If he gets knocked out, he loses. If he kills them, he gets two points, if he doesn't have murder but knocks them out, he gets one per distinct character knocked out. This happens on the rob, to be funnier, so the newbies must attack first -- penalty if he jumps the gun, of, say, 5 points.

The one with the most points wins something cool -- a silk thread, some wine, a party in his honor, a runestone dedicated to his mighty prowess, etc. Sure, higher-level characters might have a better chance of things -- so we impose some restrictions: if you have over 30 combat, you must be overfed. If you have over 50, it now begins a game of "the newbie attacks to let you know who he is, and then runs around and dodges while you try to get him". Some newbies get bows/arrows first, while you can only use a sword or your bare hands (depending on skill). Or other stupid equalizers so everyone has a fair shot. Bonus points for creative insults, alts allowed to "suicide" themselves by logging out and declaring themselves dead (still worth points), etc.

Now.

I think this would be fun, funny, entertaining, AND still give newbie goons something to do (lend out swords and any newbie should be able to hit a brand new alt, right?), and be somewhere lots of goons are congregated so they can shout like retards and have a good time.

In reality, what would happen is we'd do this for like five minutes and suddenly some OVERZEALOUS RANGER DUDE will start collecting murder scents, and the next day, or even immediately, all our high-level guys will be ganked by dudes who have grudges against them, and all our newbies will be sad and confused because they wanted to play a game and now they're on IRC and everyone's going, "FFFFFfffff I lost my character" and "DAMNIT WHO KILLED ME".

I don't like that. I think players, especially powerful ones, should have some restraint.

[Vattic]

I don't agree with following theft clues for the sake of it and killing people without questioning the suspected victim of the suspected crime.

You say that you have three choices, though. Killing is only one. What exactly is wrong with knocking them out a coupla times? They know that you can find them, they've lost some hhp, but they haven't lost the whole character; that seems like a pretty good deterrent that's unlikely to cause an army of alts to spammageddon your stuff. In fact, I might be tempted to say that a death sentence for every crime is one of the main reasons that thieves use untraceable alts to hide their gear.

As I said if they knock down your stone wall then not killing them means they can come back and rob you again in no time. If you kill them and they have low tradition then its a long way to 80 strength before they can try again. The other problem with just knocking someone out is again, if they are able to knock down stone walls then they can just come and summon kill you with the clues you left knocking them out.

The game is geared so that the only real penalty you can deal out to someone that has anything close to meaning is death. They rob you of your things and therefore your time and so you rob them of their stats /their time. I don't necessarily agree that this is how the game should be but it's how things are right now.

YMS: Your 'Morals' Suck

So far I have killed two and only while both parties are logged in. Recently my neighbour was robbed and I tracked the guy down and got his stuff back with no damage done to either party but then he pleaded ignorance before asking me to kill him odd chap, of to find some suicide leeches last I saw him.

[copyannon]

If you think it's wrong then why do you do it? Have you tried just knocking somebody out and leaving a note or something? Has anyone? The loss of hhp is a time loss, and the knowledge that retaliation is real gives a player a chance to reconsider stealing from you. I suspect that killing them just makes them more likely to hit you again, but stronger.

[Colbear]

I don't agree with following theft clues for the sake of it and killing people without questioning the suspected victim of the suspected crime.

But people do it anyways. The stronger players can do this arbitrarily, and more or less at-will, and I think that's unfair and immoral. And since they're so powerful, no one's brave enough to stand up against them, because they're afraid that they'll be next on that guy's hitlist. That's all I'm trying to say, and that's the impression I've gotten on the forums, and, to be honest, it makes me really unhappy.

[theTrav]

LoL goons, Troll post.

Vigilante rangers are awesome, if you're getting killed by them then maybe you should leave crimes off and be less of an ass hole.

[copyannon]

My only character is a craftsman with just enough archery to kill cows for leather. I wish you would read the posts and consider what I'm saying rather than just immediately dismissing me and assuming I'm just out to destroy the community here.

*edited for spelling, he is only one craftsman, not many craftsmen

[Jackard]

LOL GOONS CATCHPHRASE

*dismisses everything*

*is a jackass*

[Colbear]

LoL goons, Troll post.

Vigilante rangers are awesome, if you're getting killed by them then maybe you should leave crimes off and be less of an ass hole.

Well, here's a counter-example. I killed an alt a few times, because I thought it was funny (it was my alt, I had my permission to do so, and they were funny-themed names). I was doing some stuff with the belief sliders, and though it was technically a crime, I tried to do it in an out of the way place (and then i wasn't paying attention and accidentally followed some people in a populated area where I did it, um).

Someone came by to my hearth while I was there working on trees or something, and after a couple minutes of confusion (I wasn't sure if he wanted to take my stuff or what, so I was being a bit cagey and wary, and he wasn't upfront with what he was doing), he explained that he found a murder scent I left. I explained that I was killing an alt, gave him the alt's name (KHEZU. I also killed an Aptonoth, a Vespoid, a Hornetaur (maybe), and a Khezu Whelp. lol (explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_hunter )), and that was that.

That's how rangers SHOULD behave. If they want to behave as law enforcement, then they have to behave responsibly and be willing to hear the story. If all they're doing is going over and killing people because they CAN, well... they're strong enough to do that, but they DO NOT have the right to take a moral stance. They're not behaving morally, they're behaving like huge bullies.

[Potjeh]

If you think it's wrong then why do you do it? Have you tried just knocking somebody out and leaving a note or something? Has anyone? The loss of hhp is a time loss, and the knowledge that retaliation is real gives a player a chance to reconsider stealing from you. I suspect that killing them just makes them more likely to hit you again, but stronger.

Some people from my village did just that - they knocked out the thief (who was online at the time, but refused to speak) and stripped him naked. A couple of days later we followed another clue from our village and it lead to the same guy, only he was dead this time. None of us did the deed, so I assume it's another victim of his. Anyway, the point is that knocking someone out accomplishes nothing.