A game for newbies?

[Rift]

i honestly think that haven does have a steep learning curve, but thats not really the problem in this case.
this is more a issue of casual vs hardcore.
Haven really isn't nearly as casual as it seems to be.

I mean you can certainly pick it up with a brand new character, after a hour or two figuring things out you might have a nice little homestead, maybe you are starting to farm and wondering where you could get all the stuff you need to make all these things you see you can make... But in reality, casual players can easily be destroyed by people who have spent far more time [i assume in this case they have, since they can destroy pallicades].. Really only other players who have spent far more time [call it hardcore players in time not effort perhaps], can stop each other. Casual players can indeed hide somewhere out in the wilds off any major routes, and hope not to be found, but thats really only a hope.

Now on first impression what i said may sound like i am calling this a bad thing, but i don't really agree. From my perspective, a group of marauding bandits attacked a bunch of innocent colonists just setting up their nice new town... which sounds pretty cool. I know that many people find it painful.. but it's one of the things i like about this game.. that this sort of thing can happen. I'm not saying some nice people shouldn't scream vengence and track em down, i'm merely saying i like this level of harshness.

No doubt this sounds coloured coming from someone in my position [have a established village, relatively strong], however i assure you not only have i been stolen from many, many times, [some of which i managed to punish, others i didn't], i have also been attacked many times, and been near death on occasion. Most of these events broke up the tediusness and boredom that i generally feel after playing any game for any length of time. I would go so far to say that the majority of things that got me excited and that i will remember for a long time, were things that involved conflict, theft, vandalism and crime, whether done to me, by me, or where i was a 3rd party taking a side.

I agree this game is disadvantagous for casual gaming [and god knows we need a tutorial and some sort of way to ease newbies into the game], but the reasons for those disadvantages also create the very reasons why this game has managed to keep me interested after months of playing.

[humanalien]

just plant some trees at the starting area so new players could collect branches and light campfires to gain their crucial first lp

[Rift]

it's been tried.

[Divagador]

You could argue newbies have it though, but it's not like everyone else is living their happy colourful life without any problems at all.

Of course not. I mean, I know this is a hard game, but I feel newbies have it in 'hard-game-in-hard-mode'.
Anyway, I think we've learned the lesson and we'll try again in another place. But is sad to see how people can turn down days of city building in seconds...

Thank you all, really.

P.S: Ah, I loved your argument, Rift. Maybe I was a little exasperated at the first, but seeing at your side it sounds cool. But, you know, ouch...

[legendy]

The game really is disadvantageous towards newbies. And not just in the combat/powerfulness comparisons. Just see how hard it is for newbies to get metal now in the new world, while the strongest of the strong have already claimed most of the mines of the world. Sure, the villages that claim mines might be accepting new people in, but for how long? Once villages with metal stop accepting new players, how will any new arrivals play the game? How will the new guys even trade with the stronger people who already have access to resources the weaklings cant even dream of having?

The good thing is, the devs are planning to fix this problem and many more. Just hope they do so before the turn of the next century.

[Rift]

well there are certainly still TONS of mines, they merely are in insanely difficult for newbie to reach places.. Which could be said to be a problem.
Brodgar seems like it will remain open to newbies forever, since it claimed that as its purpose, and they have access to atleast one mine...

[sami1337]

You could argue newbies have it though, but it's not like everyone else is living their happy colourful life without any problems at all.

Of course not. I mean, I know this is a hard game, but I feel newbies have it in 'hard-game-in-hard-mode'.
Anyway, I think we've learned the lesson and we'll try again in another place. But is sad to see how people can turn down days of city building in seconds...

Thank you all, really.

P.S: Ah, I loved your argument, Rift. Maybe I was a little exasperated at the first, but seeing at your side it sounds cool. But, you know, ouch...

Yeah i do see your point. I am not sure if i'd be playing on this map as a newbie myself. Right now i live in an area completely in-accessible for anyone that didn't spend a week or so playing. Keeps away the alts and alts of alts and the newbies. But this also means i cannot recruit any newbies to my place.

Besides that, crafting seems to be much much harder than it was before.

I don't believe raids are the main problem for newbies. It's the time you must spend before you make a difference.

[Peter]

I don't believe raids are the main problem for newbies. It's the time you must spend before you make a difference.

Why must I earn the right to play the game?
Why do I have to do spend months- not a week, but several months- doing so?
If J&L wanted to make the game require earning, they would simply require that players pay cash.

In fact, a well-balanced game should be the opposite of H&H. It should be easy for a poor player to go from level 1 to level 2, while it should be difficult for a very good player to go from level 100 to level 101. As it stands, uberchars can simply walk into Mordor and kill and eat several bears and increase most of their skills by several levels. The newbies have to stay in the level one areas, totally devoid of any resources, and make wicker baskets from the only remaining apple tree, taking days of tedium before they can actually get some skills. Let's not forget that while say, carpentry costs 200 LP, getting up to 10 carpentry points requires 5,400 points.

[Cajoes]

just plant some trees at the starting area so new players could collect branches and light campfires to gain their crucial first lp

Way ahead of ya.

[KiT]

Personally, if i were to suddenly die and lose all my LP and FEP's, i wouldnt start the game as a noob in this world.
It's already a pain in the ass that i need to grind for hours to get my fucking rustroots, without being able to do much else because i need iron need to craft most of the stuff i need.
I can barely go exploring because i get chased by foxes and boars, but at least i can gmake some gauze, wile it takes quite alot of time to get the needed skills.
High level players can have claims the size of an entire grassland areas, they can easily catch whoever they want witht heir exploration skill. And now, that u need loads of exploration for rustroots, MOST players will have enough exploration to catch 99% thieves. Not like many people have enough strength to break even the wooden plalisade anyway.
So, noob cant steal shit, cant explore, cant get most crafts, and has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE to catch up with any high levels. Well, except if he macro's 24/7 for a few months.