Curios in Salem?

[Tonkyhonk]

I want my old LP system back.

how about go play runescape, if its all about lp gain method that you need for socializing with friends.

There are simple solutions to prevent this

ive never seen you suggesting any decent solutions on these forums yet... looking forward to them some time soon, i guess.

[SigmarHeldenhammer]

back in w2 the world was 4 times larger and on average 10 times less populated

i saw entire supergrids stop having trees, imagine the same on this world.

I also remember players killing people who were responsible for rampant deforestation. Policing the playerbase should almost entirely be left up to the players. Now, there is a difference between a shit game mechanic and shit players doing shit things, and the old system sometimes blurred that admittedly. In world 3 and 4, though, I only ran into empty maps once or twice, and never entire supergrids. I didn't live in a particularly active area but there were certainly other players about. I would run into at least one or two people every time I played. It wasn't inactive by any means. We just played the game as it was intended to be played.

A lot of truth...
On other hand you get more free time playing in current system, as you do minimal work and just fill in curios and log off.

While I do think the current system is more condusive to a more casual (relative to h&h playing, anyways.) playstyle, I do think there should be a noticable difference between someone who plays often and someone who doesn't. That's one of the things I have always loved about h&h: It never pulled any punches. That's what curios feels like to me. A slighted punch. I don't want the game to tickle my chin, I want it to knock my teeth out. If I don't advance my character often, I want to feel the effects of it. And I wasn't some ultra master or anything, I was just your average mid-level character. I hardly ever fought anyone. I avoided most people. Russian letters were the same as death omens to me. I liked that, though. I didn't get to be a big dick swinging ball puncher because I didn't make my character into one.


Sigmar protect you.

[Nummy]

Well currently we all have alts for everything. Farming alt, foraging alt, vandalizing/thief/murder alt,... I can't really say I have main now.
Criminals now have upper hand over everything. You can now go somewhere and steal everything and only punishment will be: death of your 150k LP alt. And then they leave murder scents and you go back and revenge your alt and what they lose? Again 150k LP alt. Criminal acts has risen by a big margin in last two worlds compared to previous world.
In 24 and w4 I rarely even saw any scents around. Now I see it on every corner. Half of the game lost point with those alts. And even with new system we haven't got rid of all bots. It's now more than ever most important to have good botting scripts. Better you have better you will be.

[Onionfighter]

Please...Tell me this is not in Salem? D:

. . . we won't discuss that here neither we are allowed to discuss about Salem too much as we are still under NDA.

[Potjeh]

I'm pretty sure Jorb revealed in an interview that something similar to curios will be in Salem.

Anyway, just because *you* didn't bot doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem. People with high strength scores were botting over 2 million LP a day by mining.

But really, bot nerf is just a pleasant side effect. The real reason for curios is that it's simply a superior system. Before, players who just walked around, talked to people, traded, built stuff in village or any other low/no LP activity were harshly punished for daring to do anything but grind whatever is the highest LP/h activity at the time. Another major point for curios is tying more production trees together. Previously there was no metal sink whatsoever, and metal as a resource and mining as a profession were constantly devalued throughout a world's life, eventually making industry-oriented playstyle economically infeasible.

[fallout]

Anyway, just because *you* didn't bot doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem. People with high strength scores were botting over 2 million LP a day by mining.

Actually W4 was a bigger problem then that, as a noob in a large village I quickly made 150k lp in an hour with noob stats. That would have came to around 3.5mil a day.
But atleast we always had metals

[Nummy]

I'm pretty sure Jorb revealed in an interview that something similar to curios will be in Salem.

Anyway, just because *you* didn't bot doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem. People with high strength scores were botting over 2 million LP a day by mining.

But really, bot nerf is just a pleasant side effect. The real reason for curios is that it's simply a superior system. Before, players who just walked around, talked to people, traded, built stuff in village or any other low/no LP activity were harshly punished for daring to do anything but grind whatever is the highest LP/h activity at the time. Another major point for curios is tying more production trees together. Previously there was no metal sink whatsoever, and metal as a resource and mining as a profession were constantly devalued throughout a world's life, eventually making industry-oriented playstyle economically infeasible.

Everybody was botting in w4, even me (hunger bot) and even now (hunger bot again).
Tree and metal production could use other fixes on different things. I agree that grinding isn't fun and not acceptable but this new system is not any good alone as well.
As I searched resources of HnH I found graphics for karma meter which could be used in many ways: if you are repeating one stuff more than 1 hour your karma drops and you get LP gain penalty.
Botting is still an issue as before. You can bot foraging curios, mining, searching for gold and silver,... Still some people have advantage over others. If bots are not public than they destroy game more than if they are. On bottom line botting is destroying game, so there should be other precautions against it.
Curio system is bad also because it is dependant on stat which before I wasn't limited. Int. This stat wasn't very popular before LP change and now we have almost no new food to give us int especially on low level of game. Some say forage for blueberries and go get fishing: but you forget: you need to find fish node which you can deplete, also you are dependant on moon position to get right fish. Foraging for blueberries is not very good way as you need to forage A LOT of them and usually walking on land you have limited inventory (no boat and chests).
Then some say: get murder skill and make necro robe: which boosts is pathetic. Go make merch robe: well not all of us can run silk industry as we don't have time to get online and put worms from herb tables into cupboards. If they have changed LP system, they should put more int food as well into game. Something that you can grow at your farm as other food. Foraging foor food should be only used by total new characters with no access to farming yet. This go for other stats as well you should have 2 options: farm or hunt and forage to get stats up not being forced into something.
Other side of new LP system is criminal acts. Before we haven't got so much criminals as now. As I wrote making a murder/vandalizing alt is not hard at all and with low investment everyone can do shit around. So criminal acts should be more expensive but some may argue about that.
As well as making alts: you have alt for everything now which is somehow good and somehow bad. You basically don't need to be online anymore or even play game to get LP. A lot of people join village leech curios from others and just go offline and get almost same LP as someone who plays almost all day. I don't like idea that someone can level their character when he is offline, unable to be killed. Before you have chance to find a bot and kill it, I remember some threads of people who shot with ranger bows on botters and killed some. Now you can't kill someone leveling army of alts. Getting LP should be award for playing the game and not just login time to time and change curios and go off.

So if this new system is about to be good there should be changes:
-more int food and some food you can make on your own farm.
-get more LP for more time you are online and playing the game and less if you are only leeching curios offline
-criminal acts should not be accessible so easy to prevent alt wars and to reduce criminal.
-quicker way to get LP and not to wait 24+ hours to get it. Max wait time should be 4-8 hours and LP gain from each curio reduced. So people needs to get online more often to change curios and on start you can advance faster
-not limit max study space by int but something different you can easily level up. (optional)

[MagicManICT]

I keep on telling everyone: YOU CAN'T STOP BOTTING. The only thing you can do is make it complex enough that it's not worth the time to put into designing and implementing the bot.

Back to topic: Anyone mentioning what goes on in Salem at this point will probably get yanked from the test team. The game still is in alpha stages so nothing in the game right now should be considered as ready for release. For that matter, anything in the game as of now could be replaced at some point before release. Thus, those that do know probably shouldn't be saying much of anything about what will or won't be in Salem. All I can say is that Jorb has stated emphatically that the old LP style won't be coming back ever. Thus, you can probably draw the conclusion that Salem is going to have the curio system or something similar to it.

[Nummy]

Even the worse version (for me) than it is now.

[SigmarHeldenhammer]

I'm pretty sure Jorb revealed in an interview that something similar to curios will be in Salem.

Anyway, just because *you* didn't bot doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem. People with high strength scores were botting over 2 million LP a day by mining.

But really, bot nerf is just a pleasant side effect. The real reason for curios is that it's simply a superior system. Before, players who just walked around, talked to people, traded, built stuff in village or any other low/no LP activity were harshly punished for daring to do anything but grind whatever is the highest LP/h activity at the time. Another major point for curios is tying more production trees together. Previously there was no metal sink whatsoever, and metal as a resource and mining as a profession were constantly devalued throughout a world's life, eventually making industry-oriented playstyle economically infeasible.

How are those industry-oriented playstyles doing now? I'm actually curious. Did adding curios actually add something to trading other than the trade of curios itself? Besides, things devalue over time. It's the nature of trade. If you have 10 x and y only needs 1 x the solution isn't (Imo) to make it so y needs 10 x. That's silly to me. It also seems to go against everything h&h is about. Instead of letting the players dictate supply and demand, they simply changed the demand.

And how about that bot problem that it fixed? Oh shit that's right, it didn't fix that. It did, however, create or exacerbate the alt problem. When I was still playing steadily most people I ran into had 1 alt for keys. Maybe a second alt for really dangerous things (Like meeting people.). That was it. Now it's alts galore. What is the meaning in permadeath if I can just get on an alt who has had curios in his study the whole time? He's just as good as the guy that died. The alt problem is just a subset of a larger and much worse problem: Broken permadeath in a game that requires it to function. Fully leveled alts remove the sting of pain. People aren't afraid to do wrong anymore. That is why crimes are so rampant. It's just a matter of who can hurt who's alt first, and which one was worth more?

So lets compare systems, shall we? Previous system: Botting was a problem, low alt number, permadeath, economy was organic though not fully realized. Curios: Botting is a problem, Entire population is made up of alts, there is no permadeath, economy is meaningless though existant, no one really has to work to become a killer anymore.

That's about how I'd cut it up. Curios blows, short and simple.