A Question of Morality, and Custom Clients

[Jackard]

It seems a common trend for indie developers to neglect their interface in favor of shinier features and it is incredibly
frustrating. There is always some excuse when UIs should be a much higher priority - after all, your players spend hours
or even days interacting with them.

Every time i see this video i feel like i'm playing another game

That's because you are. That game no longer exists, it just happens to share the same name and some art.

[Weekly_Epic_Fail]

There is always some excuse when UIs should be a much higher priority - after all, your players spend every seconds interacting with them.

Fixed.

[Scubas]

I dont feel at all that he is ignorant for playing the game as he wants to play it. Not everybody is the same, and everyone is capable of making their own decisions about things they want to do. Perhaps he doesn't want to download and just use the client without ''using the cheaty parts'' because he doesn't want to be tempted? As I said in the OP, he used Ender before and decided not to use it again. It's a bit over the top to call him ignorant for a simple thing like this.

Especially when he brings up valid points. Regardless of whether or not the game is in alpha, the skills and items are still there. I'd go as far as to say that the miner's helm's function is clearly indicated, and implemented as designed to be.(Edit: unless you mean that the entire way that darkness is handled ingame is 'outdated', in which case i have no idea how that could be done any differently.) The fact of the matter remains that ender takes 100%, the functionality of that item being in the game. So why have it?, is the question he is asking. And that's what I agree with. Why have it, for the 11 people like him that just choose to play the game as intended?

[LadyV]

I do agree some features would be nice from the default client. However your friend is overlooking some important things.

I can not rotate my view so seeing behind something is necessary.

Day and night is a good mood setting theme. Players however may only have so much time and be able to log in during certain cycles. Should they be penalized for when they can log in?

As for cartography I like it but I've not heard of any fix for the disappearing map data so its not viable.

I could go on...

The issue is time. Time for players and time for the developers to get to a certain issue. I'm not sure either view you mentioned is incorrect. We all have a certain way we prefer to play. I don't use bots or programs to do things for me. Others do use them. It doesn't make either view wrong just a preference. If he is happy with default and your happy with Ender's I think the game is big enough for both sides.

[Scubas]

Day and night is a good mood setting theme. Players however may only have so much time and be able to log in during certain cycles. Should they be penalized for when they can log in?

It's not a penalty. It's the game itself. If it's night time and you're having a hard time seeing, construct a torch post. That's the enitre point of the ''darkness'' feature of the game. You are not meant to be building at night time IRL either, as you cannot see without the aid of natural light.

Again, just to clarify. My friend and I are not bitter about this towards one another at all. Hurling insults at one another was a joke. The discussion remains though.

[Jackard]

I'd go as far as to say that the miner's helm's function is clearly indicated, and implemented as designed to be.(Edit: unless you mean that the entire way that darkness is handled ingame is 'outdated', in which case i have no idea how that could be done any differently.

I don't think the lighting system has been touched once since the game came out four years ago. Miner helms were from world one.

This sort of forgotten, broken mechanic is scattered throughout the game. Seriously, look how old this shit is.

[Jackard]

Bottom line, you cannot take anything in this game at face value. H&H can be fun but it's a mess of half-baked ideas.

[Danno]

Well, I'm his ignorant friend who's not afraid of default challenges. One thing I really hate about people using custom clients is how it sucks the fun and life out of the game. I see screenshots where all the graphics are simplified or disabled entirely. When you take the graphics out of a game, you're left with boring stuff like variables and bland substitutes for visuals. You may be winning, but winning at what? And I'm supposed to do the same or else I'm a moronic newb who's doomed to forever be inadequate to the players using superior clients?

While the default client definitely has a certain charm to it, the simple fact is that the game is literally painful to play in any vast extent without using custom clients and their many useful features.

Then I suppose, if readily available, everyone would have bots playing the game for them because everything about this game is "painful to play in any vast extent". If custom clients included features such as the following, I think everyone would use them:
-Automatically firing your sling when it reaches 70% and automatically taking aim again
-Farming
-Sorting seeds
-Automatically navigating your boat
-Automatically foraging
-Logging on to load up your curios
Where do we draw the line? Would you be satisfied if one group of players had access to all of these features for months and you only just discovered them now? It cheapens the gameplay for everyone who plays fairly, as well as reduces gameplay for the ones taking advantage of such features.

many features (like those above) were only ever half-implemented to begin with.

I use torches in caves and I've also used a miner's helm before. It's entirely functional and viable. Maybe you can't see that cavebulb highlighted with a red circle in the brightest lighting at 50m away, but you can still make your way through the cave. Certainly, cartography could use improvements with loading the maps and map stitching, but who even cares the slightest bit about that when your handy client maps everything for you automatically? At this point, they may as well remove cartography entirely because the community has decided to make it worthless. Maybe the devs would give it more consideration if they didn't see that the community deemed their efforts a waste of time.
I also hardly think it's fair for the community to punish players for clicking the "Play" button on this website.

hide behind a tree and then jump out and murder your friend for great justice

I wish that was possible, really. I feel this is a huge aspect of the game that's been completely ruined by custom clients. You cannot ambush or sneak around because everyone can see you a mile away. That was one of the game's few interactive points that didn't revolve around quality and grinding - it was something that could involve actual gameplay.

Day and night is a good mood setting theme. Players however may only have so much time and be able to log in during certain cycles. Should they be penalized for when they can log in?

H&H's day cycles don't match up to real life, so it's impossible for someone with a fixed schedule to only ever log on at night. Saying players should choose to play in day or night is like saying I should be able to choose when and where I encounter a bear. Rotating your view is never essential; being unable to do so just leaves some things to chance.

[Jackard]

And I'm supposed to do the same or else I'm a moronic newb who's doomed to forever be inadequate to the players using superior clients?

Yes. That's just how it is. Seatribe will not do anything about custom clients.

Maybe you can't see that cavebulb highlighted with a red circle in the brightest lighting at 50m away, but you can still make your way through the cave.

Just another example of a halfbaked mechanic - cavebulbs wouldn't need to be so rare if lighting worked properly.

[borka]

Using a custom client or not is for sure not a question of Morality. It's a question of Morality how you use a given Tool.