purchasing bear meat

[theTrav]

The 3 meat for 1 wrought actually sounded fairly reasonable to me, although I'd probably deliver an entire bear at once, which is 8 meat of course.

I'm afraid I can only do one deal for wrought iron (low stocks), however I'd be happy to do the wrought as well as the rest of the meat in steel coins at the price originally mentioned.

And as the other guy said, perhaps you would like to buy the teeth, or bear tooth necklaces made from them, too? I got 4 from the bear I killed today, don't know if they always drop that many.
The bear tooth necklaces add +5 str and I think +3 cha.

I'm aware of what the bear teeth are worth, however I already have those products and don't tend to see any people who are chasing those products so I doubt I'd be able to on sell them.

[theTrav]

I just cut a much better deal with Blaze in Clayshire, so I doubt we'll be trading. I misread your post and was thinking ten coins for one bar of steel. I'd be willing to trade 15 meat for one bar of steel, but not too much more. You need to take into account the LP that was needed before we were powerful enough to take on bears.

umm...

I could probably go two bears to the steel bar, that's 16 pieces of meat 100/16 = 6.25 steel coins per piece of meat, but I'd only do that price if you could actually produce all the meat at once (bulk trade is valuable in itself).

1 piece of bear meat is "too much more"? maybe you didn't see that offer.

Look, I've got steel, I want bear meat. If you've got some bear meat and you want to trade it for steel then swing by laketown some time and we'll probably work something out. You seem like a reasonable guy.

To be bluntly honest though it's unlikely I can compete with Clayshire who would probably just give you the steel if you asked them nicely for it. Their generosity is not something I begrudge them, but I suppose when I'm trying to do trade it's a bit of a bummer.

[Potjeh]

I'll have to talk to our village hunter, but I'm fairly certain that you can kill and butcher a bear in less than the 58 hours it takes to produce a bar of steel

All right, I know it's none of my damn business, but I just have to comment on this. You can't count steelmaking as if it was worth 58 manhours. That'd make a bar of steel worth thousands of breads, or a road from one edge of a map to an opposite one, or something equally ridiculous. Labour is the measure of value, not time.

So a bar of steel is worth as much as it takes you to mine the amount of ore that's needed to get a single bar of steel with average luck, the time it takes to set that ore to smelt, the time to set the bars into finery forge, the time it takes to forge bloom into wrought iron, the time it takes to set the wrought iron to transform into crucibles, the time it takes to refuel those crucibles (and no, it's not 58 hours, it's a couple of minute times five), plus of course the time needed to make all the charcoal needed.

In short, you can only demand payment for actual labour, not for waiting around when you could be doing other productive work.

[theTrav]

Potjeh, you're welcome to have your opinion, but do you actually have a stake in the trade? Or did you just smell an argument?

I'll grant you that if I spend 15 minutes preparing and planting a tree, then let it grow for a week then chop it down, the wood is not worth a week of labor.

Will you grant me, that keeping a steel crucible burning for 2 and a half days, protected, is worth more than if the whole process was as instantaneous as turning bloom into wrought iron?



I'm presenting a high value view of steel, that's because I'm the one selling the steel, but have you actually thought about how long it takes to kill a bear vs how long it takes to make the steel? Have you considered the massive LP from the death of the bear vs the relatively insignificant LP from mining? Have you considered the nice forest environment of the hunter vs the dark sweaty mines of the metal producer?


I'll say again, what is your stake in this thread. Do you have a trade offer or are you merely being disruptive because you believe "someone is wrong on the internet!?!?!?"

[Potjeh]

I apologize for making my post a bit too confrontational.

While I do not have any stake in this particular trade, I think it affects me. This game's economy is being forged right now, and the way that prices are formed here may have great effect on all future prices. As I plan to become a travelling merchant when it becomes feasible (which should be soon, thanks to guys working on Project Rome), I take great interest in this issue.

Anyway, I was going to make a point-by-point analysis of just how much work it is to find and kill a bear, but I reckon it'd do more harm than good.

[theTrav]

Ok, I also apologize, as my response may have been a little knee jerk (and I'm grumpy because the server is down).

I honestly do believe that a bar of steel is worth the meat of two bear kills to an archer. If I was an archer, and I killed two bears, I would happily trade the meat from those two bears for a bar of steel.

[Potjeh]

Yeah, I can't argue there, as I'm no metalworker, and I've never killed a bear, so I don't know exactly how much work each of them is. But I reckon that two bears to a steel bar is about right.

It's just that calculating waiting time into price bothered me, and would set a bad example for the future.It'd mean that bakers would make many times more coin than farmers, for example. You do have a point about security measures for steel-making being worth *something*, though.

[Denvon]

I will trade you one bear meat for one bear meat. Final offer.

[Lightning4]

a single bear salami is enough to boost my str by 1 point. (My highest attribute is only 23 though)

That would be a pretty expensive waste of resources. Bear Salami has a total of 35 FEP. And you have a very good chance of upping your charisma instead.

It depends on your highest stat. If your highest stat is only 20, then strength is a guarantee, as it is the first attribute the sausage should add. The charisma spills out completely and is not added. But with each point a stat is above 20, your chance of getting strength lowers slightly. This reaches its most balanced point at a highest stat of 35. You'll have a 57.2% chance of gaining strength, and a 42.8% chance of gaining charisma.

However, I think this process slowly resets beyond 35. Theoretically, if strength *is* added first, you'll reach another strength peak at a highest stat of 55, where you'll gain two units of strength and one unit of charisma from two bear sausages. This means you have a 72.7% chance of gaining a strength point, and a 27.3% chance of gaining charisma.

Of course, the further your stats go, the less effective bear sausage will be. Eventually you will reach the initial average of strength and charisma, but it will take some very significantly high stats to get that far.

It doesn't change the fact that it's easily the highest stat increase food of all, so even though you have a chance of getting charisma, you need to eat far less sausage compared to other, much, much weaker strength foods.

At least, I *hope* this is how it works. It makes sense that the highest stat a food has will be added first, after all.

[kaka]

I doubt that's how it works.
There's no valid reason why any attributes should be left out just because
they happen to be further down the list. It's not an order of priority.

When the food bar goes beyond 100 %, the chance to gain a certain attribute
should be based on how many % of the total amount that attribute stands for.
So no matter how many bear salamis you eat, given that you only eat bear
salamis, you should always have a 57 % chance to get strength and a 43 %
chance to get charisma.